Explain HW3 v HW4 Implications for CT?

[cvalue13]

Can folks more agile with the Tesla HW3/4 and FSD safe help to fill in the gaps on this xwitter discussion going around, in terms of its purported effects on the CT?

Interested in the best for/against implications?

It seems to suggest that because CT will come with HW4, it won’t be shipping with FSD anytime soon?

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[scottf200]

Can folks more agile with the Tesla HW3/4 and FSD safe help to fill in the gaps on this xwitter discussion going around, in terms of its purported effects on the CT?

Interested in the best for/against implications?

It seems to suggest that because CT will come with HW4, it won’t be shipping with FSD anytime soon?
<snip>

6 months from now is only March 2024. Of course, that 6 month is Elon time. Still it doesn't seem like much of an impact. I'd gladly wait for and want the latest HW (fastest).

I have a 'service' 2017 X that I purchased FSD for ($5K or $6K) and was very happy to get FSD HW3 upgrade even before FSD was available for my X (needed free camera upgrades). I wanted the fastest HW to process the images AND react to what they found ... ala safety. They've been helpful.

GreenTheOnly white hacker saw HW4 with an extra camera output. CT looks like it has a bumper camera (image below).

Great site showing HW differences!!
https://teslatap.com/articles/autopilot-processors-and-hardware-mcu-hw-demystified/
Related cool page on that site: https://teslatap.com/undocumented/

TeslaTap link above:

 

[cvalue13]

6 months from now is only March 2024. Of course, that 6 month is Elon time. Still it doesn't seem like much of an impact. I'd gladly wait for and want the latest HW (fastest).

so CT could ship with HW4 but not FSD

not that they may not ship CT until HW4 takes FSD?

 

[FutureBoy]

Elon talked about some of the issues with HW4 regarding FSD on the live stream recently. Basically, because the cameras are significantly different in HW4 as compared to HW3 the raw input stream that FSD uses to "see" and thus drive is also completely different. As such, there needs to be a new build up of raw data to use for training HW4 FSD. As many HW4 vehicles as there are out in the world now it shouldn't take forever to get the data. But once the data is in, the new FSD nets need to be trained on that data which is a completely different effort from the training of any HW3 FSD work.

So given his tweet that started this thread, it looks like Elon is prioritizing HW3 FSD training for international markets before training HW4 FSD. This will allow the international version of FSD to get built out and prove itself in the wild. During that time, it also allows Tesla to collect more raw data for the training of HW4 FSD.

This probably will not affect many of us beyond the first day orders because by the time the production ramp gets to any appreciable size for the CT, Tesla will have had enough time to collect HW4 data and train the HW4 FSD instance.

 

[scottf200]

so CT could ship with HW4 but not FSD

not that they may not ship CT until HW4 takes FSD?

Correct. Tesla is already shipping other vehicles with HW4 and many of those owners came from HW3 using FSD but now they can't (yet).

Also Tesla made a temporary FSD transfer option for new sales thru the 3rd quarter ... CLEARLY for end-of-quarter sales reasons ... and it also enticed the legacy owners to upgrade (ie. MCU1 infotainment folks). Many of these folks were promised FSD support on their MCU1 vehicles but only a handful have happened after a super long delay then stopped Tesla stopped doing those OTA installs AFAIK.

 

[scottf200]

Unclear how this came about or what the confusion was. Potentially the misinterpretation was that for v12 the HW4 systems would be 6 month later BUT for the v11 (below) they were able to convert camera images to be in a 'common denominator' format so the HW4 systems would work like the HW3 trained systems (ie. no better but compatible).

 

[Deleted member 17810]

Beta vs Public dates.

 

[cvalue13]

Unclear how this came about or what the confusion was.

saw that yesterday

seemed the intended message was merely that HW4 will have it but not be getting much optimization attention until HW3 has been more fully addressed

 

[CyberGus]

It's probably because of the 48v

 

[Baldey]

Tesla does not use any kind of image post-processing, its sensor data directly into the ML model. So when the sensor changes, it is an even bigger difference for the machine learning models to deal with.

FSD is trained on video captured from cars using HW3. Since HW4 has better cameras that look totally different, the neural nets will need to be re-trained on these cameras once enough data has been accumulated. The HW4 MY doesn't utilize all of the camera inputs, i think the CT might have two extra cameras (front bumper, and possibly undercarriage/tow cam.) Might be some additional training needed there. But i doubt it would be enough to prevent them from having this feature on release..

It seems that today they've finally enabled FSD for HW4 vehicles, so i think there is nothing to worry about. Elon said that by the time the CT is delivered FSD will have been solved. It would be kind of funny, if it actually got worse..

 

[PilotPete]

i think the CT might have two extra cameras (front bumper, and possibly undercarriage/tow cam.) Might be some additional training needed there. But i doubt it would be enough to prevent them from having this feature on release..

The idea of a “tow cam” got me thinking…

How about FSD to hook up a trailer. Lower the rear suspension, back it up, pop the rear up into the hitch. Bam! And you could do all that from your phone standing next to the trailer!

Or how about FSD for backing up. I’ve got a fair amount of time backing up horse trailers and boat trailers, but I’ve seen a whole lot of people that get crossed up trying to launch a boat. Imagine how much faster the launch ramp could clear up if FSD were doing the backing up to launch the boat!

 

[cvalue13]

How about FSD to hook up a trailer. Lower the rear suspension, back it up, pop the rear up into the hitch. Bam! And you could do all that from your phone standing next to the trailer!

Or how about FSD for backing up. I’ve got a fair amount of time backing up horse trailers and boat trailers, but I’ve seen a whole lot of people that get crossed up trying to launch a boat. Imagine how much faster the launch ramp could clear up if FSD were doing the backing up to launch the boat!

ford basically already has this

im sure Tesla will, too, and in the Tesla variety

 

[newwave1331]

It is definitely their intentions to have some type of auto hitching feature. I think towing on AP or FSD might be something missing for a while.

 

[CyberGus]

How about FSD to hook up a trailer. Lower the rear suspension, back it up, pop the rear up into the hitch. Bam! And you could do all that from your phone standing next to the trailer!

Sure! What could go wrong?

 

[Gurule92]

so CT could ship with HW4 but not FSD

not that they may not ship CT until HW4 takes FSD?

Exactly. Model Y with hw4 don't have fsd beta

Edit: looks like they have it now lol

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