Tesla Q1 2023 Earnings Report; Cybertruck Status Maintains "Tooling" Status, Pilot Production Line Photos Shown! 📸

[HaulingAss]

Has anyone seen or heard anything about the CT weight? I expect the battery to be ”uge” and SS is not light. 4-500 miles is gonna be hard unless that battery is really efficient and big.

I think the range of the release version will differ from the ranges anticipated during the reveal. To my eye, it looks like the 500-mile Cybertruck will not be the first version. I'm guessing the 500-mile version will have to wait until the 4680 matures, maybe in late 2005. I'm also guessing Tesla releases an interim 400-mile version with a battery of about 140 kWh first. Later there will be 300 mile and 500-mile versions. If I'm correct about this, the 400-mile version will weigh about 5500 lbs. and the 500-mile version will be about the same when it is released later (because the battery will have a higher capacity but weigh nearly the same).

To be clear, it's not the battery that needs to be "efficient" it's the rest of the drivetrain and the ancillary electrical system (the aerodynamics are mostly already a given and the battery is defined by its energy density and capacity, not its efficiency). A large part of the efficiency of the drivetrain includes the wheels and tires. Those opting for the off-road biased tires and/or larger or less aerodynamic wheels will see noticeably shorter ranges. I plan to buy multiple sets of wheels and tires (including some dedicated winter tires) so I can swap at will at home.

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[HaulingAss]

"because the 3mm thick flat stainless panels are designed specifically to carry a significant portion of the load by making the unibody more rigid, as evidenced by the number and thickness of the attachment points"

That is the point I am making. The attachments points are few. For the trim pieces along the roof it appears that they are using clips into those rectangular holes. The front fenders are attached to a stamped bracket in front and I don't see any bosses on the front casting unless they are behind the stamped inner frame in front of the doors. The rear casting is behind a wooden crate but there are five bosses shown with ~12-16mm Dia. holes. Note that the ribs of the casting do not pass through these bosses likely because it would slow the flow of the injected aluminum and cause knit lines or voids.

The work hardened SS panels would clearly need mounting hardware glued or welded that would mount the sail/side panel to the bosses on the casting. There would also need to be some galvanic insulator between the SS and aluminum casting.

Welding Cold worked panels anneals and discolors the metal and requires re-sanding/passivating for cosmetic reasons. Using adhesives can allow Tesla to use the mill finish and provide the galvanic insulation. A stamped plate with an inserted PEM stud would be glued to the SS panels.

However, Attaching these panels to the rear casting would only contribute a minor structural advantage.

The CT is strong without its skin.

Assembling the panels and trim stips will be fast and easy which is a good thing.

Disagree. Too much speculation based on too little data to conclude the 3mm stainless steel adds only minor structural advantage.

I'm going with Elon's description of the design intent on this one. Elon said the Cybertruck was being designed to have the approximate weight of a comparable gas F-150 while having superior towing/hauling specs. You don't get there in a vehicle with a heavy battery without optimizing the frame strength by utilizing the strength of those 3mm stainless panels to maximum advantage. Hence the exoskeleton design.

 

[flowerlandfilms]

A Turtles shell is an extension/outgrowth of it's spine.
Is it an exo-skeleton?
Is it an endo-skelton?
You know who doesn't care?
Turtles.
Cowabunga.

 

[JBee]

Keep in mind that the Cybertrucks payload capacity is a multiple of any other Tesla. To say the internal structure is "much the same as any other Tesla" would require putting the specifics through an engineering analysis. I do know that all other Tesla have steel occupant protection beams inside all the doors. Cybertruck will likely not have any. That is just one example of "different by subtraction", I'm sure there are many more including the subtraction of significant weight from the portions of the chassis that are not comprised of 3mm stainless steel sheet. In the metal industry, 3 mm thickness is at the dividing line between sheet metal and steel plate. The fact that it is cold-rolled to "full hard" puts it more into the category of steel plate.



That is a good description of how the 3mm thick, cold-rolled SS stiffens the structure, previously, biplanes used trusses between two parallel wings. When the skin became stressed, they eliminated a wing and a lot of weight and aerodynamic drag. That's because the structural skin on the wing made it very stiff, just like the structural skin on the Cybertruck. Body on frame trucks do not utilize the body panels to stiffen the chassis like this. So, yes, different by subtraction.



It's normal for analogies to not be perfect, but they can still be useful for conveying an idea or principle, as the biplane analogy was.



I'm not the one who identified Cybertruck as an exoskeleton, Elon did. The guy who conceived of the idea introduced it as an exoskeleton. People who want to try to bring Elon down to their level love to take potshots at everything he says.




The Cybertruck is a unibody construction even if it's not like a Honda Ridgline. Just because they are both unibody, doesn't mean the differences are not huge. The Cybertrucks payload capacity is well over double that of the highest payload of the Ridgeline and the towing capacity is nearly triple! Yet it will only weigh ~35% more (and that includes the battery). This is possible because the skin of the vehicle is 3mm thick and hardened to increase its tensile strength. The skin of the Ridgeline is lightly stressed but the rest of the frame has to make up the difference because the skin is thin, soft (mild) steel. Not all things that look alike, function in a similar matter.



You are looking at it incorrectly when you say the SS panels are "hung" on an internal frame network. The panels and the underlying frame, including the upper rear casting and the front and rear lower castings (including the structural pack), are unitized to act like one structure. The result is stronger and more rigid than the sum of the parts. That's what makes it unibody.

What makes it different from existing unibodies is that the 3 mm skin carries a much higher percentage of the internal loads meaning the rest of the structure can be built much lighter relative to it's load capacity than without the strength of the cold-rolled 3mm thick skin. This is beyond doubt now that we have seen photos that show how substantial and how numerous the underlying attachment points are.

Dude you are still ignoring all forms of engineering principles with your fluff vague descriptions of assertive bluff, and still going on about your "exoskeleton" nonsense? You must wear a helmet in bed too? "No such thing as a good analogy", "definitions are approximations", "mud is chocolate". Who knows..hey? All just so you can "argumentum ab auctoritate", which btw is not yours, nor do you understand it.

For there to be any force, on any component, there must also be something resisting that force.

Last time I checked air resistance didn't warrant and exoskeleton on a car. Will you also huff and puff to blow my house down?

Show me just one single load path, from a vehicle load though to the tyre contact patch on the ground, that is better off going through the skin of the vehicle. I just need one...come on I know you can do it buddy!

 

[uff_da]

They're getting delivered to employees, they'll know what they're getting and they'll also be under NDA.

Bingo- I can't wait for everyone to then complain about this (they only delivered like 5 to employees- when will I get MINE!).

I do expect some EPA filings that will tell us range before this like the MY 4680. I HOPE they update the online configurator at the "hand over" event unlike how they did the MY 4680 and trickled a few out to inventory pages.

Tesla has all the leverage with the pent up demand so they can do whatever they feel is best long term. I would caution people to get their hopes to high for the "delivery" event.

 

[HaulingAss]

A Turtles shell is an extension/outgrowth of it's spine.
Is it an exo-skeleton?
Is it an endo-skelton?
You know who doesn't care?
Turtles.
Cowabunga.

Exactly! People just use red herring arguments to try to bring Elon down to their level.

I suppose it's possible that some of them simply don't have a good understanding of structural analysis but, if that is the case, you would think they would give substantional deference to people who can land orbital rockets on drone ships at sea.

Exoskeleton rockets, I might add.

For those curious, turtles are solidly in the endoskeleton category because they have a full internal skeleton that the legs, neck and tail connect to. The shell is merely for protection, it's not a skeletal structure.

People who take exception to the obvious, even when properly informed by others, are merely making fools of themselves.

 

[Qball]

I’m smart enough to know that I don’t know, given Tesla track records I’m sure it will be the safest vehicle on the road and extremely utilitarian. I can’t wait for mine even if it is only using SS to avoid paint.


Glass roof is part of structure and provides significant structure strength, are S3XY models part exo-skeleton or endo-skeleton? Ask me if I care…….

 

[charliemagpie]

I have always viewed Elons exoskeleton comment as analogous to a harder outer shell to protect the occupant.

Not necessarily as the prime structure to keep it all together.

Even a small bingle, the thing would be compromised, that in itself should be clear enough that the skin by itself isn't the structure.

I guess a suit of Armour is more like it. I think we have been a bit over scientific with a throwaway line.

 

[HaulingAss]

I have always viewed Elons exoskeleton comment as analogous to a harder outer shell to protect the occupant.

Not necessarily as the prime structure to keep it all together.

Even a small bingle, the thing would be compromised, that in itself should be clear enough that the skin by itself isn't the structure.

I guess a suit of Armour is more like it. I think we have been a bit over scientific with a throwaway line.

We saw how difficult it is to put a meaningful dent in the 3mm stainless at the reveal when Franz hit it with a sledgehammer. I've heard this left a barely detectable dent in the door panel. Theoretically, this would ever so slightly reduce the occupant protection but it's so insignificant it's not even funny. Even a real divot in the exoskeleton produced by a sharper blow of a heavier sledgehammer would barely impact the structural strength of the exoskeleton.

It would take a pretty massive blow by a pretty massive hard object to cause enough structural damage to the stressed skin for me to worry the truck's safety was compromised. The primary issue would be one of aesthetics. Most people don't like big, ugly dents.

 

[JBee]

We saw how difficult it is to put a meaningful dent in the 3mm stainless at the reveal when Franz hit it with a sledgehammer. I've heard this left a barely detectable dent in the door panel. Theoretically, this would ever so slightly reduce the occupant protection but it's so insignificant it's not even funny. Even a real divot in the exoskeleton produced by a sharper blow of a heavier sledgehammer would barely impact the structural strength of the exoskeleton.

It would take a pretty massive blow by a pretty massive hard object to cause enough structural damage to the stressed skin for me to worry the truck's safety was compromised. The primary issue would be one of aesthetics. Most people don't like big, ugly dents.

You need another lecture on how something that deforms is safer for passengers than something that doesn't?

Gosh get just one degree of common sense already...

 

[HaulingAss]

You need another lecture on how something that deforms is safer for passengers than something that doesn't?

Gosh get just one degree of common sense already...

That doesn't make any sense in this context.

 

[Crissa]

And given the front/rear castings, and structural pack, the CT's "degree" of structure derived solely from the skin is less than the range of reasonable
...
I incorrectly assumed there would be no internal tubing/skeleton

No, this was never reasonable. You are correct m you were incorrect. And it's fine to be! Not everyone knows all the forces on a vehicle. Heck, even structural science advances all the time.

-Crissa

You know what should tell you the skin is structural?

That the body in white had so many cross-beams sticking out of the shape of the finished truck, holding it in that pose as it was being worked upon. That entire tray it was suspended on was acting like the missing structure.

 

[CyberGus]

Elon: "I want the truck to be armored."
Franz: "Wow, that will make it very heavy."
Elon: "Well, can you make the armor part of the structure?"
Franz: "Sure! If you make the truck one big friggin' triangle HAHAHAHAHA"
Elon: "OK"
Franz: "ummmmwhut"

 

[Crissa]

Elon: "I want the truck to be armored."
Franz: "Wow, that will make it very heavy."
Elon: "Well, can you make the armor part of the structure?"
Franz: "Sure! If you make the truck one big friggin' triangle HAHAHAHAHA"
Elon: "OK"
Franz: "ummmmwhut"

Franz is the artist, not the engineer, here, but yeah.

-Crissa

 

[CyberGus]

Franz is the artist, not the engineer, here, but yeah.

-Crissa

I thought you were only pedantic about the aerospace stuff

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