Cybertruck VIN decoder! -- GVWR Vehicle Weight Revealed + **only** Dual and Tri Motor for 2024

[AustroTom]

Here's whats gonna happen:

Come Nov 30 they will announce a Dual with 350, and a Tri with 500, starting with the first batch of T/500.

Anthasswassup

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[JBee]

Warning, my electrical/battery knowledge is lacking:

Given: 4680 Cybercell (Gen2): 3.7V 25.7Ah = ~95.1 Wh

1.) If we had a pack with 216s6p ~115kWh usable, what would be the peak pack power?

2.) If it was 216s7p ~ 134kWh usable, what would be the peak pack power?

3.) If it was 216s8p ~ 153kWh usable, what would be the peak pack power?

I found this website but some of it is going over my head and other parts I think might be incorrect.
https://www.batterydesign.net/tesla-cybertruck-and-battery-pack/

https://www.batterydesign.net/electrical/c-rate/

The easiest way to calculate peak output of a battery is to know it's C charge/discharge rate.

This can be calculated by simply taking the peak power output of the motors in kW and dividing that by the battery pack size in kWh. So for a MSP that would be 750kW/100kWh=7.5C

Using the following C rates, 7.5C/6C/4.5C the outputs would be:

C Rate Comparison
kW	Pack Size	7.5	6	4.5
kWh	115	863	690	518
kWh	134	1005	804	603
kWh	153	1148	918	689
HP	Pack Size	7.5	6	4.5
kWh	115	1156	925	693
kWh	134	1347	1077	808
kWh	153	1538	1230	923

So given the above it's possible for even a smaller CT pack to drive a TM drivetrain.

 

[newwave1331]

The easiest way to calculate peak output of a battery is to know it's C charge/discharge rate.

This can be calculated by simply taking the peak power output of the motors in kW and dividing that by the battery pack size in kWh. So for a MSP that would be 750kW/100kWh=7.5C

Using the following C rates, 7.5C/6C/4.5C the outputs would be:

C Rate Comparison
kW	Pack Size	7.5	6	4.5
kWh	115	863	690	518
kWh	134	1005	804	603
kWh	153	1148	918	689
HP	Pack Size	7.5	6	4.5
kWh	115	1156	925	693
kWh	134	1347	1077	808
kWh	153	1538	1230	923

So given the above it's possible for even a smaller CT pack to drive a TM drivetrain.

Missed your reply but I added this comment to the another chat but it applies to both.

A lot of people have said Tri motor uses plaid motors. What about some next gen hairpin motors with a max rating of 425Hp/motor? Maybe the Dual motor we saw with a H weight rating was the "Performance" that fulfils the 3500 payload rating with the same 115kWh (usable pack) as the standard "Dual Motor" w/ lower payload. If production rate, costs & efficiency are top priority, hairpin seem to be the better choice and the future.

Maybe available at launch, Tesla derates the 115kWh's pack power for the "Dual Motor" and provides the first two variants (limiting factor: 4680 run rate, next gen motor availability and general cybertruck assembly rate):

• "Dual Motor" 2motor 600hp, 330mi, 0-60mph 4.5s, ~2600 payload, ~13k towing (G-Rated) $64,990 (~20% lower truck pmt and home fuel costs to a comparable F150 Crew Cab Hybrid) ~$1,255/mo vs $1,577/mo
• "Performance" 2motor 850hp, 315mi, 0-60mph 3.5s, ~3500 payload, ~14k towing (H-rated) $69,420 (~33% lower truck pmt and home fuel costs to a comparable F150 Raptor 3.5 V6) ~$1,347/mo vs $2,021/mo

Then some unknown time later, maybe 2025 (limiting factor: 4680 run rate & next gen motor availability while ramping next-gen vehicle):

• "Next Gen Tri-motor" 3motor w/153kWh 1200hp, 420mi, 0-60mph 2.9s, ~3000lb payload, ~15k towing (H-rated) could be $79,990 but not announced 11/30 (~35% lower truck pmt and supercharging fuel costs to a comparable F150 Raptor R V8) ~$1,687/mo vs $2,610/mo

Prices might seem high but with the $7500 rebate and fuel costs, these would be significantly cheaper monthly payments + fueling costs compared to their ICE truck competitor. I would think of these prices as launch minimums. They are worth about $71k, $89k and 118k to be cost neutral with ICE @ 10% interest 0% down 60mo 15k miles/yr. Spec would meet or exceed ICE other than range. Maybe we see 500 mile when we get to Mars.

What do you buy or wait for?

 

[JBee]

Missed your reply but I added this comment to the another chat but it applies to both.

A lot of people have said Tri motor uses plaid motors. What about some next gen hairpin motors with a max rating of 425Hp/motor? Maybe the Dual motor we saw with a H weight rating was the "Performance" that fulfils the 3500 payload rating with the same 115kWh (usable pack) as the standard "Dual Motor" w/ lower payload. If production rate, costs & efficiency are top priority, hairpin seem to be the better choice and the future.

Maybe available at launch, Tesla derates the 115kWh's pack power for the "Dual Motor" and provides the first two variants (limiting factor: 4680 run rate, next gen motor availability and general cybertruck assembly rate):

• "Dual Motor" 2motor 600hp, 330mi, 0-60mph 4.5s, ~2600 payload, ~13k towing (G-Rated) $64,990 (~20% lower truck pmt and home fuel costs to a comparable F150 Crew Cab Hybrid) ~$1,255/mo vs $1,577/mo
• "Performance" 2motor 850hp, 315mi, 0-60mph 3.5s, ~3500 payload, ~14k towing (H-rated) $69,420 (~33% lower truck pmt and home fuel costs to a comparable F150 Raptor 3.5 V6) ~$1,347/mo vs $2,021/mo

Then some unknown time later, maybe 2025 (limiting factor: 4680 run rate & next gen motor availability while ramping next-gen vehicle):

• "Next Gen Tri-motor" 3motor w/153kWh 1200hp, 420mi, 0-60mph 2.9s, ~3000lb payload, ~15k towing (H-rated) could be $79,990 but not announced 11/30 (~35% lower truck pmt and supercharging fuel costs to a comparable F150 Raptor R V8) ~$1,687/mo vs $2,610/mo

Prices might seem high but with the $7500 rebate and fuel costs, these would be significantly cheaper monthly payments + fueling costs compared to their ICE truck competitor. I would think of these prices as launch minimums. They are worth about $71k, $89k and 118k to be cost neutral with ICE @ 10% interest 0% down 60mo 15k miles/yr. Spec would meet or exceed ICE other than range. Maybe we see 500 mile when we get to Mars.

What do you buy or wait for?

I have various duals and tris on order, some for Australia and some for USA.

I don't have much info on the "next gen" motor, except that it seems it uses "no" rare earth materials.

This implies to me that it either has no magnets at all, and is induction like the rear M3/MY motors, or is a "non-ferrous" design, which is experimental at best.

The hairpin design, along with using square conductors does help in both power density and manufacturing, but I am uncertain to which level of performance the result will be.

Would be good to find some more info on this, to discuss in it's own thread.

 

[newwave1331]

The easiest way to calculate peak output of a battery is to know it's C charge/discharge rate.

This can be calculated by simply taking the peak power output of the motors in kW and dividing that by the battery pack size in kWh. So for a MSP that would be 750kW/100kWh=7.5C

Using the following C rates, 7.5C/6C/4.5C the outputs would be:

C Rate Comparison
kW	Pack Size	7.5	6	4.5
kWh	115	863	690	518
kWh	134	1005	804	603
kWh	153	1148	918	689
HP	Pack Size	7.5	6	4.5
kWh	115	1156	925	693
kWh	134	1347	1077	808
kWh	153	1538	1230	923

So given the above it's possible for even a smaller CT pack to drive a TM drivetrain.

I highlight the pack size and approximate C-Rate in my post with some inverter and gearbox losses to get my peak hp's. In the same neighborhood. The peak hp ratings align with the 0-60 times and payload/curb weights i imply too.

7.5C Performance < 2.8s
7.5C Next-Gen TM < 2.5s
Seem to bleed into the model x plaid and add cooling capacity, motor weight and possibly life miles on the pack & frame. The numbers are starting to get nutty. I'm also curious of the charging rate and regen rate capability.

The hairpin design, along with using square conductors does help in both power density and manufacturing, but I am uncertain to which level of performance the result will be.

Would be good to find some more info on this, to discuss in it's own thread.

Next Gen motors will be more important especially with possible rare material export bans/restrictions.

 

[JBee]

I highlight the pack size and approximate C-Rate in my post with some inverter and gearbox losses to get my peak hp's. In the same neighborhood. The peak hp ratings align with the 0-60 times and payload/curb weights i imply too.

7.5C Performance < 2.8s
7.5C Next-Gen TM < 2.5s
Seem to bleed into the model x plaid and add cooling capacity, motor weight and possibly life miles on the pack & frame. The numbers are starting to get nutty. I'm also curious of the charging rate and regen rate capability.


Next Gen motors will be more important especially with possible rare material export bans/restrictions.

Do you have a link to your post pls?

 

[Diehard]

The CyberTruck should be fully made in the US with US sourced batteries. It will qualify for the full tax credit.

This makes it more attractive and not just for tax credit. If I need to fix an old CT down the road, I would not want to depend on China for parts. 60 Minutes posted an interview two days ago that make me wonder how U.S. relationship with China will be in 5 years.

 

[SentinelOne]

Missed your reply but I added this comment to the another chat but it applies to both.

A lot of people have said Tri motor uses plaid motors. What about some next gen hairpin motors with a max rating of 425Hp/motor? Maybe the Dual motor we saw with a H weight rating was the "Performance" that fulfils the 3500 payload rating with the same 115kWh (usable pack) as the standard "Dual Motor" w/ lower payload. If production rate, costs & efficiency are top priority, hairpin seem to be the better choice and the future.

Maybe available at launch, Tesla derates the 115kWh's pack power for the "Dual Motor" and provides the first two variants (limiting factor: 4680 run rate, next gen motor availability and general cybertruck assembly rate):

• "Dual Motor" 2motor 600hp, 330mi, 0-60mph 4.5s, ~2600 payload, ~13k towing (G-Rated) $64,990 (~20% lower truck pmt and home fuel costs to a comparable F150 Crew Cab Hybrid) ~$1,255/mo vs $1,577/mo
• "Performance" 2motor 850hp, 315mi, 0-60mph 3.5s, ~3500 payload, ~14k towing (H-rated) $69,420 (~33% lower truck pmt and home fuel costs to a comparable F150 Raptor 3.5 V6) ~$1,347/mo vs $2,021/mo

Then some unknown time later, maybe 2025 (limiting factor: 4680 run rate & next gen motor availability while ramping next-gen vehicle):

• "Next Gen Tri-motor" 3motor w/153kWh 1200hp, 420mi, 0-60mph 2.9s, ~3000lb payload, ~15k towing (H-rated) could be $79,990 but not announced 11/30 (~35% lower truck pmt and supercharging fuel costs to a comparable F150 Raptor R V8) ~$1,687/mo vs $2,610/mo

Prices might seem high but with the $7500 rebate and fuel costs, these would be significantly cheaper monthly payments + fueling costs compared to their ICE truck competitor. I would think of these prices as launch minimums. They are worth about $71k, $89k and 118k to be cost neutral with ICE @ 10% interest 0% down 60mo 15k miles/yr. Spec would meet or exceed ICE other than range. Maybe we see 500 mile when we get to Mars.

What do you buy or wait for?

I'll buy the performance version when my first deposit comes up (about 120k in line) and then give to my son in law and get a max motor performance when my second deposit comes up (about 600k in line), then do so again with my third deposit (about 1.2m in line)- I was trying to plan ahead for such....my end state is a mature/evolved max motor/range model! I'll keep 2 of the 3 in the family for sure...tbd on third one and timing....

 

[newwave1331]

Do you have a link to your post pls?

The one I put in here and the dual/tri motor one? #289 in this thread.

I'll buy the performance version when my first deposit comes up (about 120k in line) and then give to my son in law and get a max motor performance when my second deposit comes up (about 600k in line), then do so again with my third deposit (about 1.2m in line)- I was trying to plan ahead for such....my end state is a mature/evolved max motor/range model! I'll keep 2 of the 3 in the family for sure...tbd on third one and timing....

I hope prices at ramp come in around my estimates but my specs might have been a little optimist for 2024. I'm having some doubts we get a curb weight under 6500 for dual motor and efficiency is going to be rough with the door wedge. I still think it will be a great product, but affordable range will not be one of its strengths.

 

[CYBRSMTH]

This makes it more attractive and not just for tax credit. If I need to fix an old CT down the road, I would not want to depend on China for parts. 60 Minutes posted an interview two days ago that make me wonder how U.S. relationship with China will be in 5 years.

It’s not good. I think the British phased out their colonization of Hong Kong hoping that China would be influenced by the free trade economy they had established and become a more capitalist democratic society, but it didn’t work. Meanwhile China is on the verge of taking Taiwan back by force, the same way they suppressed and took over Hong Kong.

The US should have never gotten in bed with a Communist regime that steals our trade secrets, hacks our government websites, and is buddying up to Russia and Iran. Sadly it was all because corporations wanted to make more money off of cheap Chinese labor and lax regulations.

Tesla makes the most American-made vehicles of any manufacturer. I don’t think we hear that enough.

 

[cvalue13]

Tesla makes the most American-made vehicles of any manufacturer. I don’t think we hear that enough.

If it’s true it’s awesome

apparently the outfit that runs the “American made” auto testing doesn’t count or consider BEV-only parts

makes for a weird compare

 

[greggertruck]

The easiest way to calculate peak output of a battery is to know it's C charge/discharge rate.

This can be calculated by simply taking the peak power output of the motors in kW and dividing that by the battery pack size in kWh. So for a MSP that would be 750kW/100kWh=7.5C

Using the following C rates, 7.5C/6C/4.5C the outputs would be:

C Rate Comparison
kW	Pack Size	7.5	6	4.5
kWh	115	863	690	518
kWh	134	1005	804	603
kWh	153	1148	918	689
HP	Pack Size	7.5	6	4.5
kWh	115	1156	925	693
kWh	134	1347	1077	808
kWh	153	1538	1230	923

So given the above it's possible for even a smaller CT pack to drive a TM drivetrain.

I skipped from page 7 to 20… and have no idea what this means :/

 

[JBee]

I skipped from page 7 to 20… and have no idea what this means :/

My post was to clarify the point that a 3 motor CT can run on just a 2 motor "sized" battery pack.

Originally, motor performance and fast acceleration (and charging) was limited by the size of a battery on the smaller Tesla models because of the "C" rate of the battery. This describes how much power can be drawn from at a battery at one time, and can be calculated by simply multiplying the C rate by the battery kWh as in the graph.

So for example if you had a C rate of 2 on a 100kWh battery your motor could be 200kW, and so on.

But now with the larger battery size required to achieve the desired range in a larger CT, the battery is already big enough to power a tri-motor CT.

Simply, without out getting into cell specifics, if a Plaid can power three motors with 100kWh so can a CT with 120kWh of battery.

The graph is to demonstrate how the different C rates from different model Teslas compare, and how much horsepower each pack is capable of depending in the C rate.

Hope this helps.

 

[Diehard]

It’s not good. I think the British phased out their colonization of Hong Kong hoping that China would be influenced by the free trade economy they had established and become a more capitalist democratic society, but it didn’t work. Meanwhile China is on the verge of taking Taiwan back by force, the same way they suppressed and took over Hong Kong.

The US should have never gotten in bed with a Communist regime that steals our trade secrets, hacks our government websites, and is buddying up to Russia and Iran. Sadly it was all because corporations wanted to make more money off of cheap Chinese labor and lax regulations.

Tesla makes the most American-made vehicles of any manufacturer. I don’t think we hear that enough.

It is easier said than done. We all want affordable products. Even with all government push to bring back manufacturing to U.S. the current UAW situation will force companies to either put significant resources on AI and tools like Optimus or creatively export jobs to where Unions or democratic leaders don’t exist. The good news is Expectations of Chinese standards of living is going up so indefinite cheap labor may not be sustainable. If things keep going the way the do, I have a feeling expensive cars today may sound cheap a few years down the road. Which may be good news for public transportation.

 

[CYBRSMTH]

If it’s true it’s awesome

apparently the outfit that runs the “American made” auto testing doesn’t count or consider BEV-only parts

makes for a weird compare

The criteria is complicated and it probably varies per study, but according to Cars.com Tesla has the first 4 spots as of June 2023:

1. Model Y
2. Model 3
3. Model X
4. Model S
5. Honda Passport
6. VW ID.4
7. Honda Odyssey
8. Acura MDX
9. Honda Ridgeline
10. Acura RDX

https://insideevs.com/news/673116/tesla-american-made-us-cars/

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