Cybertruck BIW body-in-white frames with front/rear castings 🤩 [7/11/23]

[JWass]

Got into a heated debate with someone in FB about whether it is an exoskeleton or unibody. He works in body repair and swears it is unibody. My issue with that description is that it isn’t really that.

It is an exterior frame, similar to unibody, without any body panels. So it doesn’t fit the “body” portion of unibody. Or a chassis and body combined in one.

My SUV has the roof, door frames and rear quarter panels as part of the frame. Exposed sheet metal that is painted and visible. So it’s a unibody.

CT is unique in how it’s built. All stainless, plastic and glass panels attached to a frame.

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[Ogre]

One thing is very clear.

It is not a ladder frame.

 

[PilotPete]

From the pictures, what about this…

The CT mounts a front and rear casting on the cabin, The cabin compartment is the ”pure” exoskeleton portion of the vehicle, which also uses a battery pack as a stressed XO member.

Forward and aft of the cabin the body panels are also possible stressed members, towards a different goal.

 

[cvalue13]

The cabin compartment is the ”pure” exoskeleton portion of the vehicle, which also uses a battery pack as a stressed XO member.

the doors are a bit of a hiccup in that proposed model - they just hangin’ on hinges’ of a steel chassis

but the CT is definitely an “exoskeleton”

whether it’s the type of exoskeleton you were expecting, is another matter

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Got into a heated debate with someone in FB about whether it is an exoskeleton or unibody. He works in body repair and swears it is unibody. My issue with that description is that it isn’t really that.

It is an exterior frame, similar to unibody, without any body panels. So it doesn’t fit the “body” portion of unibody. Or a chassis and body combined in one.

My SUV has the roof, door frames and rear quarter panels as part of the frame. Exposed sheet metal that is painted and visible. So it’s a unibody.

CT is unique in how it’s built. All stainless, plastic and glass panels attached to a frame.

At the end of the day the people who insist that it isn’t an exoskeleton have no data to back their argument up because there is no car ever built that everyone agrees is an exoskeleton, and there is a lot of variety in the animal world for creatures that are considered as having an exoskeleton.

So what features of an exoskeleton do you want that the Cybertruck has? Increased flexural rigidity? Increased ability to withstand damage to the exterior?

At the end of the day you do not have to argue with anyone or convince anyone. if the Cybertruck has the features you want you can be happy.

 

[Greshnab]

At the end of the day the people who insist that it isn’t an exoskeleton have no data to back their argument up because there is no car ever built that everyone agrees is an exoskeleton, and there is a lot of variety in the animal world for creatures that are considered as having an exoskeleton.

So what features of an exoskeleton do you want that the Cybertruck has? Increased flexural rigidity? Increased ability to withstand damage to the exterior?

At the end of the day you do not have to argue with anyone or convince anyone. if the Cybertruck has the features you want you can be happy.

when I look at the definitio of exoskeleton it says...
an external covering or integument, especially when hard, as the shells of crustaceans

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/exoskeleton

the CT has it's hardest layer as an external covering... so it fits the definition it would appear to me..

but you are correct people are going to all have their own opinion.

 

[Crissa]

Got into a heated debate with someone in FB about whether it is an exoskeleton or unibody.

It's unibody. And exoskeleton.

Because the exoskeleton isn't articulated.

Exoskeleton doesn't preclude unibody or vice versa. A unibody is a portmanteau of 'unit body' meaning, the structure of the vehicle is a single structural unit.

That it also has body panels that are not structural is irrelevant to the unibody design. It just means the structure is in the body, not that there might also be other body panels that aren't structural.

-Crissa

 

[Greshnab]

It's unibody. And exoskeleton.

Because the exoskeleton isn't articulated.

Exoskeleton doesn't preclude unibody or vice versa. A unibody is a portmanteau of 'unit body' meaning, the structure of the vehicle is a single structural unit.

That it also has body panels that are not structural is irrelevant to the unibody design. It just means the structure is in the body, not that there might also be other body panels that aren't structural.

-Crissa

Crissa you realize by your definition a clam isn't an exoskeleton.. it has no articulation.??

just saying

 

[cvalue13]

there is no car ever built that everyone agrees is an exoskeleton,

point of process:

there are cars, planes, boats, that are built as an exoskeleton and recognized/discussed by designers and engineers as being exoskeleton construction as a category

people keep acting like the concept is whatever Musk wants it to be, or only a biological definition

this “exoskeleton” concept in building vehicles is understood, predating Musk’s comments on stage, and professionals who understood this concept thought Musk was talking about something different

To that extent, Musk either is or isn’t

 

[TyPope]

It's unibody. And exoskeleton.

Because the exoskeleton isn't articulated.

Exoskeleton doesn't preclude unibody or vice versa. A unibody is a portmanteau of 'unit body' meaning, the structure of the vehicle is a single structural unit.

That it also has body panels that are not structural is irrelevant to the unibody design. It just means the structure is in the body, not that there might also be other body panels that aren't structural.

-Crissa

Well said. In the end, it doesn't really matter where the CT gets it's strength, just that it has strength.

I would think a unibody vehicle has that stamped structure that includes some exterior body panels that are just hung on it and may not be relied on to provide strength.

The "exoskeleton" notation simply means that the panels hanging on the interior stamped structure are relied on to provide additional strength. It is the intended extra strength that makes this a "exoskeleton" vehicle.

But, whatever, right?
Will it flex too much under heavy load or high-torque situations? Will it rattle and squeak because of those small changes? I trust Tesla engineering to build a truly strong vehicle. I'll call it a low-poly triangular-super-structure if Tesla names it that... or an exoskeleton... they can choose.

 

[CyberGus]

Got into a heated debate with someone in FB

I think I see your first mistake

 

[Crissa]

Crissa you realize by your definition a clam isn't an exoskeleton.. it has no articulation.??

just saying

A clam does not have an exoskeleton! It doesn't use the shell as a skeleton. It would live perfectly fine without it. See also slugs (from the same branch of the tree of life).

Also, exoskeletons can be articulated, it's the Cybertruck that's not articulated, and hence, is a unibody and an exoskeleton.

-Crissa

 

[Frank Mendez]

Tesla insurance isn't for anyone. They can't magically give the safest drivers and the most dangerous drivers the lowest rates in the business. Their entire business model is based on capturing the safer drivers, the ones least likely to be in an accident, according to their data, and rewarding them with lower rates. It may also be that you have to sign up and let them monitor your safety level for a while, to see if you get lower or higher rates, I don't know. I just know I've heard from a number of Tesla drivers that have much lower rates through Tesla Insurance than their previous insurance.

This works out really well for the safest drivers, and not so well for those who are riskier. What I learned when I was trying to get a good enough driver safety score to get FSD beta activated on my Performance Model 3 was that I was in control of my driver score. It was hard, but after a few failed attempts, and learning exactly what Tesla wqs measuring, I got my "safe driver score" above Tesla's threshold for being in the FSD beta program. Success! I viewed it as a video game. Others were not so adept and couldn't get in the FSD beta program.

If you don't want to alter your driving, and you tend to be an aggressive driver, then Tesla insurance is probably not for you. And it doesn't have to work for everyone for it to help keep other insurance companies honest when insuring Tesla drivers. Because big insurance companies hate to lose any market share in the markets they serve.

What frustrates me about Tesla Insurance is the 10:30 PM penalty. Seems too early and I drive after 10:30 PM on game nights or from friends house parties. I am almost never home later than 11:00 PM. It has impacted my safety score and subsequently, my insurance rates.

 

[PilotPete]

point of process:

there are cars, planes, boats, that are built as an exoskeleton and recognized/discussed by designers and engineers as being exoskeleton construction as a category

people keep acting like the concept is whatever Musk wants it to be, or only a biological definition

this “exoskeleton” concept in building vehicles is understood, predating Musk’s comments on stage, and professionals who understood this concept thought Musk was talking about something different

To that extent, Musk either is or isn’t

Sorry C, you overstepped there.

There isn’t a single plane out there I’ve ever seen that advertises they are built as an “Exoskeleton”. I’ve been in this business for a loooong time. I’ve been around boats a loooong time as well. Can’t think of one of them that uses that term.

As far as designers and engineers, I can tell you in the aviation field, NO ONE uses that term. Mostly because they really aren’t built that way. A ribbed structure is built first and the outer skin is attached (method varies with size and cost) to the frame. The inner skin is different, as it forms the “pressure vessel” of the aircraft. It’s still bonded to the frame, but sometime by a different method than the outer skins. On most jets, the outer wing skins (there being no inner skin on the wing) also forms the fuel tanks, and the structure inside is continuously bathed in Jet-A fuel.

Non-pressurized aircraft reduce weight by making the inner fuselage skins out of plastic or something else. Of course, Carbon Fiber and other composite materials are becoming more and more common in design and manufacturing.

In the late 80’s and 90’s, crotch rockets (performance motorcycles) started using the phrase (and design concept) of the engine and transmission as a “stressed member”, meaning, the frame bolted to the engine and gained strength and rigidity from the engine itself. Yamaha built a frame that was two aluminum spars that directly connected the steering head to the swing arm pivot in a straight line (when viewed from the side.) and the engine bolted directly to the frame to provide strength.

Boats are often a frame (wood, aluminum, steel, or composite) which is placed in a mold and additional composite material is then laid in and baked under pressure to form the outer hull. The top section is molded separately and attached, allowing the company to offer different versions of the same hull (center console, max sleeper, performance cruiser, all out performance) for the public.

But even if you consider them to be exo designed, they don’t use the term.

 

[Crissa]

Sorry C, you overstepped there.

There isn’t a single plane out there I’ve ever seen that advertises they are built as an “Exoskeleton”. I’ve been in this business for a loooong time. I’ve been around boats a loooong time as well. Can’t think of one of them that uses that term.

...
But even if you consider them to be exo designed, they don’t use the term.

Crabs don't use the word exoskeleton, either, I don't see how this argument is supposed to be compelling. That someone doesn't use a word doesn't mean it is or is not appropriate. Are there endoskeleton airplanes? Not really. So why would they make note of the difference?

-Crissa

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