Was the Tri-motor at Launch Price a massively better deal than the Dual?

[CYBRSMTH]

I am struggling to adjust my way of thinking from the Ice world into the EV world. Please check my math on this. If we are comparing the two models of Cybertruck it would seem to make sense for an apples to apples comparison on longevity it would be logical to determine how many miles the vehicle will go before going below a set range rather than using % of range loss. Let's assume a truck is not that useful below 210 miles of range and so would be considered at end of life. For the Tri-motor with a beginning range of 500 using a 5% battery degradation per 100,000 miles that would give approximately 1,700,000 miles before hitting the 210 mile range threshold. With the Dual at a range of 300 that threshold would be hit at approximately 700,000. Please check my math. I just multiplied 500 times .95 17 times. It would seem the larger range makes the Tri a vastly better deal especially for high mileage people. Am I missing something?

Here’s some info on EV battery degradation:

“After five years, it is common to see a 5-10% drop in range. Some vehicle models follow a fairly linear 1.5-2.0% per year, while most others drop 2-3% in the first couple of years before leveling to 1% per year. In the Tesla Model S, for example, we see that many lose less than 5% of range from 50,000 to 200,000 miles.”

According to studies done by companies like Recurrent, Tesla vehicles have lower amounts of degradation than other EVs (about 5% after 5 years and 150,000 miles). So the 350-mile Dual Motor CT would be at 332.5 miles in 5 years and wouldn’t reach 210 miles of range for decades (329.175 in the 6th year, 325.883 in the 7th year, etc.)

If you’re frequently driving across the country or hauling and towing things I’d imagine it would wear the battery out more quickly as it’s getting more use, but another study shows that Supercharging your battery doesn’t degrade it any faster than charging at home. It’s just more expensive (25-35 cents per kW vs. 14 cents per kW in Ohio).

Most EV trucks just came out in the last 5 years or so we won’t actually know the long-term effects on battery degradation for a while. So just pick a CT and enjoy.

https://www.cars.com/articles/your-...ure-death-range-loss-and-preservation-446126/

https://motorillustrated.com/extens...ing-doesnt-hasten-battery-degradation/121004/

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[Baldey]

oh haha my bad, but i also blame @nmeabrian for necroing this thread lol. but i should read things..

 

[dempster]

I’m with the OP on this. Not the specific numbers here, but with my Model Y I feel a bit cramped with the current ~300 mile range. If the truck dropped down to even 275 it would start to get more frustrating. Consider for a moment you only get to use ~70% of the actual range (10% buffer on the bottom, 20% charging), a 275 mile vehicle is really about 195 miles useful. If you push the edges of the charging network, that can get sketchy. I expect the network will be a lot bigger in a few years, but it’s hard to really say what it’ll look like in 5 years.

I upgraded to the tri motor because of range frustration (not anxiety, I’m rarely anxious about, but occasionally frustrated). If I were to buy the dual motor and range dropped significantly it would be frustrating.

This is the sort of thing people don't really understand until after driving an electric, at least I certainly didn't.

Even if we buy a 500mile truck. 100,000 miles down the road, it's no longer a 500mile truck. it's more like a 450 mile truck. (The initial range reduction happens quite rapidly)

Like you put it, 70% useful range - the 500mile truck IS 300miles of actual usable range, a year or two down the road.

for comparison's sake, my model 3 (a 500KM model) with a touch over 100,000km on it, is now a 450km vehicle.

 

[charliemagpie]

I can't be farked looking into the data.. using the latest battery, I don't think we are close to losing 10% after 100,000.

 

[WormtownKris]

One singular data point: our 2018 Model 3 LR RWD- purchased in late September, 2018. Used mostly as the Mom-mobile. Driving to practice, work, errands, etc. Charged at home on Tesla wallcharger, usually to 80%, only to 100% a couple of times per year, 55k miles after a little over 5 years:
Original range: 310 miles
Range at 100% after 5+ years: 299 miles. (Only 3.7% range loss after over 5 years, but admittedly under favorable, ~textbook battery management).
YMMV, literally!

 

[Tinker71]

Here’s some info on EV battery degradation:

“After five years, it is common to see a 5-10% drop in range. Some vehicle models follow a fairly linear 1.5-2.0% per year, while most others drop 2-3% in the first couple of years before leveling to 1% per year. In the Tesla Model S, for example, we see that many lose less than 5% of range from 50,000 to 200,000 miles.”

According to studies done by companies like Recurrent, Tesla vehicles have lower amounts of degradation than other EVs (about 5% after 5 years and 150,000 miles). So the 350-mile Dual Motor CT would be at 332.5 miles in 5 years and wouldn’t reach 210 miles of range for decades (329.175 in the 6th year, 325.883 in the 7th year, etc.)

If you’re frequently driving across the country or hauling and towing things I’d imagine it would wear the battery out more quickly as it’s getting more use, but another study shows that Supercharging your battery doesn’t degrade it any faster than charging at home. It’s just more expensive (25-35 cents per kW vs. 14 cents per kW in Ohio).

Most EV trucks just came out in the last 5 years or so we won’t actually know the long-term effects on battery degradation for a while. So just pick a CT and enjoy.

https://www.cars.com/articles/your-...ure-death-range-loss-and-preservation-446126/

https://motorillustrated.com/extens...ing-doesnt-hasten-battery-degradation/121004/

There was a good article about hot climates being harder on batteries. Deduct another 2-3% if you are from Phoenix.

One singular data point: our 2018 Model 3 LR RWD- purchased in late September, 2018. Used mostly as the Mom-mobile. Driving to practice, work, errands, etc. Charged at home on Tesla wallcharger, usually to 80%, only to 100% a couple of times per year, 55k miles after a little over 5 years:
Original range: 310 miles
Range at 100% after 5+ years: 299 miles. (Only 3.7% range loss after over 5 years, but admittedly under favorable, ~textbook battery management).
YMMV, literally!

2023 M3 2.22% loss in 8 months and 13,000 miles. LFP entirely level 2.

 

[Crissa]

There was a good article about hot climates being harder on batteries. Deduct another 2-3% if you are from Phoenix.

Yeah, mostly a problem for Leafs and others without thermal management.

You can trade today's range for tomorrow's in a Tesla. In fact, I think that's a default setting.

-Crissa

 

[Roy2001]

Official Cybertruck reveal night Nov 2019 and official Cybertruck reservations (2019 - 2021).

Tri Motor AWD range 500mi+, payload 3,500lbs, towing 14,000lbs, price $69,900

Of course final specifications and prices could change.

How can CT has 3500lb payload while loaded Lightning is 1500lb and Silverado EV is 1300lb?

 

[Rutrow]

How can CT has 3500lb payload while loaded Lightning is 1500lb and Silverado EV is 1300lb?

First of all, the 3500 lb. payload for CT is the PROPOSED payload. Whether that makes it to production remains to be seen. It can be done, by beefing up the suspension components, but at some point it will come down to expense weighted against the target market's need. No sense loading the vehicle up with expensive parts that will only be needed/wanted by a minute portion of the buyers. Cost/benefit calculations will be done and the actual payload numbers will result.

I think 3500 # would be overkill for me.

 

[scottf200]

One singular data point: our 2018 Model 3 LR RWD- purchased in late September, 2018. Used mostly as the Mom-mobile. Driving to practice, work, errands, etc. Charged at home on Tesla wallcharger, usually to 80%, only to 100% a couple of times per year, 55k miles after a little over 5 years:
Original range: 310 miles
Range at 100% after 5+ years: 299 miles. (Only 3.7% range loss after over 5 years, but admittedly under favorable, ~textbook battery management).
YMMV, literally!

106000 mile 2018 Model 3 LR AWD used on long commutes (50 miles - 1 hour each way)
80% charge each day; 1-2 modest road trip with 4-5 supercharger stops per year.
10%-15% loss depending on the time of year.

Green line is 60-70 other similar mileage and similar spec'd car on TeslaFI . COM - that is 10+% as well.

9% on my 97000 mile 2017 Model X - short drives typically - fair number of supercharging trips

Green line fleet is similar 9-10% loss.

 

[Roy2001]

I am struggling to adjust my way of thinking from the Ice world into the EV world. Please check my math on this. If we are comparing the two models of Cybertruck it would seem to make sense for an apples to apples comparison on longevity it would be logical to determine how many miles the vehicle will go before going below a set range rather than using % of range loss. Let's assume a truck is not that useful below 210 miles of range and so would be considered at end of life. For the Tri-motor with a beginning range of 500 using a 5% battery degradation per 100,000 miles that would give approximately 1,700,000 miles before hitting the 210 mile range threshold. With the Dual at a range of 300 that threshold would be hit at approximately 700,000. Please check my math. I just multiplied 500 times .95 17 times. It would seem the larger range makes the Tri a vastly better deal especially for high mileage people. Am I missing something?

The problem for EV battery is not range loss, probably never. It is the individual cell. I would rather live with range loss than individual cell failure that requires fixes which cost a lot of money.

 

[Crissa]

I think 3500 # would be overkill for me.

Yeah, but I would adore it. How many pavers could I haul at once?

The batteries are so large, that there's no difference to battery longevity charging level 1 or level 2. I've tried to explain the opposite to HaulingAss: At these rates, the battery is basically trickle charging and has more than enough time to absorb the electrons. (Chargers probably work better on 240, tho. Most power electronics that are dual-voltage are more efficient then.)

-Crissa

 

[Rutrow]

Yeah, but I would adore it. How many pavers could I haul at once?

-Crissa

3500 lb. payload is great to have, I just know from experience (stone and retaining wall block) that the bed of a pickup truck is the wrong way to haul that stuff. I guess it'd be fine if it's palletized and can be off loaded with a forklift, but unlading that kind of material by hand out of a bed is brutal. I've opted for trailers ever since. ?

 

[CyberGus]

How can CT has 3500lb payload while loaded Lightning is 1500lb and Silverado EV is 1300lb?

The Tesla Model Y has a payload rating of 900 pounds.

How can something with only 1300lbs of payload be classified as a "truck"???

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