Any 500mi range updates?

[happy intruder]

for towing and getting only 450-525 kWh, people will be charging all the time......400 miles usually ends up around 380....cant use the truck for off roading and camping if no solar available ......kind of ruins the plans

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[Jhodgesatmb]

My biggest problem with sedans, and SUVs for the most part, is that they are just not tough enough for my ungentle ways. I don’t throw things around casually, but I *always* have tools and gear and dogs in my vehicles, and often carry stuff from the hardware store, lumber company, etc. I don’t like damaging my ‘delicate’ cars, so a stainless steel pickup is really (really) appealing to me. I hope the seat material can stand up to some carelessness. Cargo capacity and towing just sweeten the deal for me…and range is still king!

 

[DMC-81]

I'm curious to see the weight on a Tesla battery pack for possible 400 or 500 mile spec.

I see for the dual motor Model Y in the standard range of 280 miles version, the 4680 pack weighs 1,198 pounds (543 kilograms) Interestingly, that is with seats, console, and carpet included.
Source:
https://insideevs.com/news/596439/tesla-modely-4680-structural-pack-out/

For the Ford F150 Lightning, dual motor variant, with standard range of 300 miles, the 98.0 Kwh pack weighs more at 1,800 pounds ( 816 kilograms).
Source:
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/40676...ngs-battery-weighs-over-1800-pounds-by-itself

In the Chevrolet Silverado EV, the 400 mile spec will use the Ultium 200 Kwh pack used in the Hummer EV that weighs 2,500 pounds ( 1,278 kg)
Source:
https://www.motortrend.com/events/2024-chevrolet-silverado-electric-truck-first-look-review/



The downside in the Silverado EV is that cargo capacity is only 1,300 pounds, likely due to the 2,500 pound battery pack penalty.

 

[Tiberius]

if you wanna’ be chippy about it, you might at least be generous in your interpretations

compared to trucks, sedans *do* have serious range limitations - particularly when towing

first, pulling any material trailer, compared to trucks, sedans experience far greater range loss from drag (due to their base range being so dependent on low drag, and as a result the trailer exposed to more undisturbed air)

second, US light/medium trucks come OEM with massive fuel tanks (and given their poor aero, trailers don’t degrade range as badly as in a sedan). The Ford F-150’s optional 36-gallon tank, for example, offers 936 miles (1,500km) of range (unladen). The 250 Superduty has an optional 42 gallon, getting 720mi (1,150km).

nobody said trucks are the only way to trailer light loads

but it *was* you suggesting that in order to tow few need more than a sedan, silly Americans

wasn't trying to be snippy, just failing at humor.
Funnily enough, someone on TMC just quoted some common research on truck owner usage for towing. Seems that 75% use their truck to tow once a year or less. It was the economics of those folks I was pointing out.

 

[CyberGus]

I'm curious to see the weight on a Tesla battery pack for possible 400 or 500 mile spec.

I see for the dual motor Model Y in the standard range of 280 miles version, the 4680 pack weighs 1,198 pounds (543 kilograms) Interestingly, that is with seats, console, and carpet included.
Source:
https://insideevs.com/news/596439/tesla-modely-4680-structural-pack-out/

For the Ford F150 Lightning, dual motor variant, with standard range of 300 miles, the 98.0 Kwh pack weighs more at 1,800 pounds ( 816 kilograms).
Source:
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/40676...ngs-battery-weighs-over-1800-pounds-by-itself

In the Chevrolet Silverado EV, the 400 mile spec will use the Ultium 200 Kwh pack used in the Hummer EV that weighs 2,500 pounds ( 1,278 kg)
Source:
https://www.motortrend.com/events/2024-chevrolet-silverado-electric-truck-first-look-review/



The downside in the Silverado EV is that cargo capacity is only 1,300 pounds, likely due to the 2,500 pound battery pack penalty.

I’m dismayed by the loud complaining I see online about the inability to repair the Tesla pack. A modular pack is larger, heavier, and more expensive, so that 1% of owners can swap out a bad cell. It makes no sense.

That said, replacement packs are prohibitively expensive. Tesla should offer 20-year “pack insurance” to replace total failures.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

You should remind everyone that the patent you referred to was a patent for a user interface and the range it showed may well have been digitally added.

 

[cvalue13]

Funnily enough, someone on TMC just quoted some common research on truck owner usage for towing. Seems that 75% use their truck to tow once a year or less. It was the economics of those folks I was pointing out.

but...

... people don't buy trucks only to tow?

so, for data to tell us anything about how much people have a self-inflated expectation of towing, you would have to poll only the people who bought primarily because they believed they needed to tow.

in any event, since when are the 'economics' of vehicle purchases a north star to any observations? I'd assume that very few people make vehicle purchase decisions on any widely-agreed principle of economic rationalism.

there's, like, the single mom who's work is 50mi from home in a place with no public transportation, who buys a used honda civic in its lowest trim level ...

... then there's everyone else.

 

[Tiberius]

but...

... people don't buy trucks only to tow?

so, for data to tell us anything about how much people have a self-inflated expectation of towing, you would have to poll only the people who bought primarily because they believed they needed to tow.

in any event, since when are the 'economics' of vehicle purchases a north star to any observations? I'd assume that very few people make vehicle purchase decisions on any widely-agreed principle of economic rationalism.

there's, like, the single mom who's work is 50mi from home in a place with no public transportation, who buys a used honda civic in its lowest trim level ...

... then there's everyone else.

Isn't that the great thing about surveys - that fictional driver who only drives <50 miles a day which was used to justify the crazy low range of the first EVs. Personal experience, I owned a gen-1 Leaf
Sorry to divert onto a completely OT discussion

 

[scottf200]

I'm curious to see the weight on a Tesla battery pack for possible 400 or 500 mile spec.

I see for the dual motor Model Y in the standard range of 280 miles version, the 4680 pack weighs 1,198 pounds (543 kilograms) Interestingly, that is with seats, console, and carpet included.
Source:
https://insideevs.com/news/596439/tesla-modely-4680-structural-pack-out/

For the Ford F150 Lightning, dual motor variant, with standard range of 300 miles, the 98.0 Kwh pack weighs more at 1,800 pounds ( 816 kilograms).
Source:
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/40676...ngs-battery-weighs-over-1800-pounds-by-itself

In the Chevrolet Silverado EV, the 400 mile spec will use the Ultium 200 Kwh pack used in the Hummer EV that weighs 2,500 pounds ( 1,278 kg)
Source:
https://www.motortrend.com/events/2024-chevrolet-silverado-electric-truck-first-look-review/



The downside in the Silverado EV is that cargo capacity is only 1,300 pounds, likely due to the 2,500 pound battery pack penalty.

I recently saw the RAM 1500 REV numbers so your research made me wonder how they all roughly compare in terms of how many kWhs does it take to go 1 mile. I may convert those to miles per 1 kWh which may be more useful / common.

Rivian R1T (original I think)
105 kWh @ 231 mi (0.454 kWh / mile)
135 kWh @ 314 mi (0.430 kWh / mile)
180 kWh @ 401 mi (0.449 kWh / mile)

Chevrolet Silverado:
200 kWh @ 400 miles (0.500 kWh / mile)

Ford F150 Lightning:
98 kWh @ 300 miles (0.327 kWh / mile)

Ram 1500 REV:
168 kWh @ 350 miles (0.480 kWh / mile)
229 kWh @ 500 miles (0.458 kWh / mile)

The Ram 1500 REV will be built on the Stellantis STLA large frame with dual 250 kW electric motors providing up to 654 hp and 620 lb-ft of torque. Ram says its pickup will be able to tow up to 14,000 lbs and payloads of up to 2,800 lbs.

It will be offered in two battery options – 168 kWh or 229 kWh. The former has a 350-mile targeted range, while the latter aims for 500 miles. Ram also claims the EV truck can add around 110 miles of range in 10 minutes with 800 V fast charging.

 

[SpaceYooper]

I recently saw the RAM 1500 REV numbers so your research made me wonder how they all roughly compare in terms of how many kWhs does it take to go 1 mile. I may convert those to miles per 1 kWh which may be more useful / common.

Rivian R1T (original I think)
105 kWh @ 231 mi (0.454 kWh / mile)
135 kWh @ 314 mi (0.430 kWh / mile)
180 kWh @ 401 mi (0.449 kWh / mile)

Chevrolet Silverado:
200 kWh @ 400 miles (0.500 kWh / mile)

Ford F150 Lightning:
98 kWh @ 300 miles (0.327 kWh / mile)

Ram 1500 REV:
168 kWh @ 350 miles (0.480 kWh / mile)
229 kWh @ 500 miles (0.458 kWh / mile)

Not sure about the others but your Ford numbers were wrong.

Per Ford's website;
98 kWh @ 240 miles (0.408 kWh / mile)
131 kWh @ 300 miles (0.436 kWh / mile)

But we still don't know the battery size options for the CT yet. I guess we can assume it will perform better in terms of kWh/mile, but how much better? I also don't understand why in some cases the bigger battery seems to be more efficient in terms of kWh/mile and in other cases, it is less efficient (even within the same brand).

Having said that, I'm working under the assumption that the long-range variant CT will have a 180-200 kWh battery. Using the worst specs from the manufacturers above (Silverado) makes the range of the long-range CT between 380-400 miles, . Using the best correct spec from above (corrected standard range F150) makes the range of the long-range CT between 441-490 miles. Which is also to me.

I would love; actually, I need the long-range CT to just about have the uncorrected F150 efficiency and a 180-200kWH battery. In that case, the range would be 550-611 miles. In which case I'd be perfectly happy with the 180kWh pack.

Is Tesla that much more efficient?
I think the Model Y standard range is 75kWh @ 303 miles (.247kWh/mile). But the CT will weigh at least 150% of the MY. So...dumb math .247 x 1.5 = .370 kWh/mile; making CT range 486-540 miles. In which case I need it to be a 200 kWh pack.

We could play this game all day with other models and their efficiencies and make some assumptions about the CT wieght and pack sizes.

 

[scottf200]

Not sure about the others but your Ford numbers were wrong.

Per Ford's website;
98 kWh @ 240 miles (0.408 kWh / mile)
131 kWh @ 300 miles (0.436 kWh / mile)

But we still don't know the battery size options for the CT yet. I guess we can assume it will perform better in terms of kWh/mile, but how much better? I also don't understand why in some cases the bigger battery seems to be more efficient in terms of kWh/mile and in other cases, it is less efficient (even within the same brand).

Having said that, I'm working under the assumption that the long-range variant CT will have a 180-200 kWh battery. Using the worst specs from the manufacturers above (Silverado) makes the range of the long-range CT between 380-400 miles, . Using the best correct spec from above (corrected standard range F150) makes the range of the long-range CT between 441-490 miles. Which is also to me.

I would love; actually, I need the long-range CT to just about have the uncorrected F150 efficiency and a 180-200kWH battery. In that case, the range would be 550-611 miles. In which case I'd be perfectly happy with the 180kWh pack.

Is Tesla that much more efficient?

Thanks for taking the time to correct it. I used the Ford numbers from the above DMC-81. It didn't seem right especially when I was looking at the conditional format coloring

From this post the Rivian is very efficient (0.30) and 'matches' the CT Elon wishful thinking tweet.

*1 RAM 1500 EV claim is 0.34 drag coefficient.
*2 Rivian says the R1T has a drag coefficient of just 0.30 Cd
*3 Ford F150 Lightning 0.?? coefficient
*4a Elon tweet exact text: "With extreme effort, Cybertruck might hit a 0.30 drag coefficient"
*4b Aleix Lázaro Prat, a CFD Engineer for Numeric Systems: CT drag coefficient of about 0.39 Cd

I think people are going to be disappointed in the CT range ... especially when towing since the areo isn't going to matter much. Tesla's problem is they want to produce a lot of CTs but to get to 500 miles would require 210-215 kWh I'm guessing. Bet it is coming out as a 350 initially so they can make more.

 

[SpaceYooper]

Thanks for taking the time to correct it. I used the Ford numbers from the above DMC-81. It didn't seem right especially when I was looking at the conditional format coloring

From this post the Rivian is very efficient (0.30) and 'matches' the CT Elon wishful thinking tweet.

*1 RAM 1500 EV claim is 0.34 drag coefficient.
*2 Rivian says the R1T has a drag coefficient of just 0.30 Cd
*3 Ford F150 Lightning 0.?? coefficient
*4a Elon tweet exact text: "With extreme effort, Cybertruck might hit a 0.30 drag coefficient"
*4b Aleix Lázaro Prat, a CFD Engineer for Numeric Systems: CT drag coefficient of about 0.39 Cd

I think people are going to be disappointed in the CT range ... especially when towing since the areo isn't going to matter much. Tesla's problem is they want to produce a lot of CTs but to get to 500 miles would require 210-215 kWh I'm guessing. Bet it is coming out as a 350 initially so they can make more.

Thanks for the chart!

I think 500+ it's still within reach for 180-200kWh pack for Tesla. If your chart estimates Ford would need 218kWh pack now and the CT will have a better cd and more efficient battery than the F150, then a 200kWh battery from Tesla should do it.

 

[PilotPete]

Thanks for the chart!

I think 500+ it's still within reach for 180-200kWh pack for Tesla. If your chart estimates Ford would need 218kWh pack now and the CT will have a better cd and more efficient battery than the F150, then a 200kWh battery from Tesla should do it.

Don’t forget, the motor is what converts the electric energy into forward inertial energy, and the regen. I think Tesla is ahead of the others in that area. So less power loss in the conversion and better energy recapture all leads to more miles per kWh…

 

[Art O'Connor]

Didn't the Model X and S used to have long range options? Like well over 400 miles? Now the S is 396 and the X is 333. Over the years, battery technology has improved, but, even Tesla, has a battery shortage. I don't think we will see the 500 mile range Elon promised for a couple of years.

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