Tesla Q1 2023 Earnings Report; Cybertruck Status Maintains "Tooling" Status, Pilot Production Line Photos Shown! 📸

[Gurule92]

They do not reveal specs or model details at investor calls.

Moving plastic molding around or bit of structural steel will change the trucks weighs and dimensions by an inch here and there. A slightly different battery cell formula will change the range. Power consumption of the new systems are estimates, they don't know for reals until they test them.

And Tesla will iterate even when they're coming down the pipeline.

So no, they don't know the specs yet.

-Crissa

Im not asking them to do it at an investor call. idc where they do it, it could be a tweet. and I also dont need. exact range or. power consumption. You think they know how many motors they are going to put in? What their current range goals are? How many seats it'll have? we are couple months away from production, there cant be that many unknowns.

(sorry for all the periods, butterfly mac keyboard sucks)

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[Gurule92]

You find the situation unacceptable? The solution is simple:

Cancel your reservation and get your $100 back! Do you understand the meaning of the word "unacceptable"? The only fool is you if you prolong unacceptable situations. Let those of us who accept the fact that the creator of such a magnificent vehicle gets to make the rules, all move up a place in line.

You need to understand that you are not in charge here because you did not create the Cybertruck and you are not amongst those who are going to be taking the initiative to put it into mass production so millions can make use of it.

Yea, dont worry about what is going to be in the item you waited for years for. Just shut up and buy it or get out of line

 

[RVAC]

Too many pages to read, so sorry if this has been hit. But am I the only one who thinks its weird that they want to announce all the specs the same day that they deliver it? lol.

Guy who gets it is like wtf, this isnt what i ordered. lol

They're getting delivered to employees, they'll know what they're getting and they'll also be under NDA.

 

[Gurule92]

They're getting delivered to employees, they'll know what they're getting and they'll also be under NDA.

That's true I suppose. Much better answer than. "you get what you get nerd, be glad elon is willing to take your money" lol

 

[cal]

And given the front/rear castings, and structural pack, the CT's "degree" of structure derived solely from the skin is less than the range of reasonable interpretations available at unveil. Basically, the CT has much the same internal structure as any other Tesla, plus whatever the skin provides. That's largely different by addition, not different by substitution.

And different by substitution was a reasonable interpretation available at unveil:

"Well this is it for the fundamental design change. We move the mass to the outside. We created an exoskeleton. Normally with the way that a truck is designed. You have a body on frame, you have a bed, frame and the body and the bed don't do anything useful... It was the way that aircraft used to be designed, the way they had biplanes. Basically, the key to creating an effective monoplane was stressed skin design. You move the stress to the outside skin allows you to do things that you can't do with the body on frame. So we're able to make the skin out of thick, ultra hard stainless steel. It's really hard to show you just how hard."

The biplane to monoplane example is a good one for framing the reasonable interpretation from unveil.

And to the extent the CT design appears to retain the internal structures of castings and structural packs, while add toughness via the shell, the biplane/monoplane analogy isn't a perfect one.

Which is fine. Call it an exoskeleton all you wish. But unclear the basis of your hubris on which to dress down someone who essentially points out the ways the biplane/monoplane analogy doesn't appear perfect.
[/QUOTE]


You're right, I think the term exoskeleton originated in the biological world to mean exactly what it says an external skeleton. There is no soft external parts on a grasshopper or crab. Everything outside is hard. It's not like other terms that have universal agreement in application. E.g. beta is used in chemical reactions, electronics and finance. High beta means highly reactive whether its amplification , stock price volatility etc. Just not sure the term exoskeleton is the same.

I goggled "what vehicles have a exoskeleton" what vehicles have an exoskeleton

The ones I'm familiar with (Ariel Atom and the KTM X-Bow) are tubular frame with no external skin. Basically welded tubes that create a skeleton. You could attach side panels to them and they would still claim to be an exoskeleton approach. CT is clearly not a typical truck ladder frame. It's also not a Unibody like say a Honda Ridgeline. It's something different.

I incorrectly assumed there would be no internal tubing/skeleton and that somehow the entire truck would be exactly like a crab or insect. Clearly I never really thought about how it would be put together. So if the ss panels are hung on some type of internal frame network, how would that differ from a MS? The fact it's ss instead of aluminum means nothing of the body panels are hung on the same way.

 

[CyberGus]

Insects don't have bones.

Halloween disagrees

 

[CyberGus]

Exoskeletons have been around forever (note the midgate)

 

[greggertruck]

Maybe because the specs are not yet final?

DBE just began in Giga Texas and there are probably some internal goals still being met with those!

Can't give us range if they don't know what they'll be capable of quite yet. Although, there's gotta be a hard curfew for playing around.

 

[cvalue13]

In terms of having both internal and external structure, I’d say the CT is more of an exoSkeletor

 

[Mini2nut]

Some interesting posts so far with some statements being dead on and others... not so much. I'm happy you guys are getting to see a sneak peak at a small part of the pilot line and the kickass techs working hard behind-the-scenes.

Mmmmmm. I suspect we have a Tesla insider here. Please spill some tidbits, Elon won’t have you terminated?

 

[ricinro]

Declaring that the Cybertruck does not have, an exoskeleton, is essentially arguing engineering terminology with one of the worlds most accomplished engineers and also demonstrates a misunderstanding of the very meaning of the word.

The term "exoskeleton" was first coined by biologists to describe the skeletal structure of animals like insects and crustaceans which do not have central skeletons. It would not be a stretch to call a VW beetle an exoskeleton (or any other unibody vehicle). The differece between previous unibody vehicles and Cybertruck is that the thin stamped body panels of all production predecessors don't take a significant part of the load, they are too flimsy. Most of the load is taken by the stamped and welded members the skin bolts to. Nevertheless, they (all unibody vehicles) can be loosely considered exoskeletons because the structure is anterior.

Insects have shells made up of multiple layers of structural materials, each with their own properties and composition, and crabs have "bulkheads" within the exterior shell to add rigidity. They are still exoskeletons.

The exoskeleton of the cybertruck is formed from multiple assemblies sandwiched together to create a rigid outer structure. This includes the two under-castings, the upper rear castings in the "wings" of the bed, the structural battery pack, the stamped and welded structure enclosing the cabin, and the thick, structural skin.

Because the 3mm thick flat stainless panels are designed specifically to carry a significant portion of the load by making the unibody more rigid, as evidenced by the number and thickness of the attachment points, they form a necessary part of the structure and this is what makes it more of an exoskeleton than even a vehicle like the classic VW Beetle that also used the skin, although to a lesser degree, as part of the structure.

This image shows the composite nature of the structure of an insect's exoskeleton and they way it is layered to create more rigidity:

This image can help visualize the essential differences between an endoskeleton and exoskeleton. The endoskeleton has a soft, fleshy exterior with the primary bony structure in the interior of the organism while the exoskeleton has the load bearing portions on the anterior of the organism, like the Cybertruck.

The Starship, developed by Musk and SpaceX, is also an exoskeleton, as all rockets are. The fact that it has a frame composed of a double wall of stainless steel does not detract from this characterization as you can see in the composite structure of an insects outer shell in the first image.

Arguing semantics with an engineer as accomplished as Elon Musk is not very productive. It's the movers and shakers of the world who mold and shape our language, not unknown and un-celebrated people throwing peanut shells from the peanut gallery. Even without Elon having declared the Cybertruck an exoskeleton, it can be clearly seen that the term applies, and it applies to the Cybertruck to an even higher degree than it applies to more traditional unibody vehicles.

Arguing engineering semantics with the man who builds orbital rockets that land themselves is probably not the most productive path to take.

"because the 3mm thick flat stainless panels are designed specifically to carry a significant portion of the load by making the unibody more rigid, as evidenced by the number and thickness of the attachment points"

That is the point I am making. The attachments points are few. For the trim pieces along the roof it appears that they are using clips into those rectangular holes. The front fenders are attached to a stamped bracket in front and I don't see any bosses on the front casting unless they are behind the stamped inner frame in front of the doors. The rear casting is behind a wooden crate but there are five bosses shown with ~12-16mm Dia. holes. Note that the ribs of the casting do not pass through these bosses likely because it would slow the flow of the injected aluminum and cause knit lines or voids.

The work hardened SS panels would clearly need mounting hardware glued or welded that would mount the sail/side panel to the bosses on the casting. There would also need to be some galvanic insulator between the SS and aluminum casting.

Welding Cold worked panels anneals and discolors the metal and requires re-sanding/passivating for cosmetic reasons. Using adhesives can allow Tesla to use the mill finish and provide the galvanic insulation. A stamped plate with an inserted PEM stud would be glued to the SS panels.

However, Attaching these panels to the rear casting would only contribute a minor structural advantage.

The CT is strong without its skin.

Assembling the panels and trim stips will be fast and easy which is a good thing.

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

. So if the ss panels are hung on some type of internal frame network, how would that differ from a MS? The fact it's ss instead of aluminum means nothing of the body panels are hung on the same way.

It's different in that the panels will factor in the strength and rigidity, and not just keep dirt out like sheet metal. But the question is not how it's different from a Model S, but how it's different from an F150. The answer there, is "a lot".

 

[cal]

Has anyone seen or heard anything about the CT weight? I expect the battery to be ”uge” and SS is not light. 4-500 miles is gonna be hard unless that battery is really efficient and big.

 

[cvalue13]

Declaring that the Cybertruck does not have, an exoskeleton, is essentially arguing engineering terminology with one of the worlds most accomplished engineers and also demonstrates a misunderstanding of the very meaning of the word

strange, even Sandy Monroe doesn’t understand engineering terminology:

“What the exoskeleton does is to get rid of the requirements for internal longitudinals, stiffening ribs, and things like that because the structural skin would be doing all the work. What you are really doing is getting rid of roof bows, door surrounds, and things like that. They may still need an extra structure for where the hinges are. At the end of the day, you’re looking at a product that will still be self-supporting.”

 

[HaulingAss]

And given the front/rear castings, and structural pack, the CT's "degree" of structure derived solely from the skin is less than the range of reasonable interpretations available at unveil. Basically, the CT has much the same internal structure as any other Tesla, plus whatever the skin provides. That's largely different by addition, not different by substitution.

Keep in mind that the Cybertrucks payload capacity is a multiple of any other Tesla. To say the internal structure is "much the same as any other Tesla" would require putting the specifics through an engineering analysis. I do know that all other Tesla have steel occupant protection beams inside all the doors. Cybertruck will likely not have any. That is just one example of "different by subtraction", I'm sure there are many more including the subtraction of significant weight from the portions of the chassis that are not comprised of 3mm stainless steel sheet. In the metal industry, 3 mm thickness is at the dividing line between sheet metal and steel plate. The fact that it is cold-rolled to "full hard" puts it more into the category of steel plate.

And different by substitution was a reasonable interpretation available at unveil:

"Well this is it for the fundamental design change. We move the mass to the outside. We created an exoskeleton. Normally with the way that a truck is designed. You have a body on frame, you have a bed, frame and the body and the bed don't do anything useful... It was the way that aircraft used to be designed, the way they had biplanes. Basically, the key to creating an effective monoplane was stressed skin design. You move the stress to the outside skin allows you to do things that you can't do with the body on frame. So we're able to make the skin out of thick, ultra hard stainless steel. It's really hard to show you just how hard."

That is a good description of how the 3mm thick, cold-rolled SS stiffens the structure, previously, biplanes used trusses between two parallel wings. When the skin became stressed, they eliminated a wing and a lot of weight and aerodynamic drag. That's because the structural skin on the wing made it very stiff, just like the structural skin on the Cybertruck. Body on frame trucks do not utilize the body panels to stiffen the chassis like this. So, yes, different by subtraction.

The biplane to monoplane example is a good one for framing the reasonable interpretation from unveil.

And to the extent the CT design appears to retain the internal structures of castings and structural packs, while add toughness via the shell, the biplane/monoplane analogy isn't a perfect one.

It's normal for analogies to not be perfect, but they can still be useful for conveying an idea or principle, as the biplane analogy was.

Which is fine. Call it an exoskeleton all you wish. But unclear the basis of your hubris on which to dress down someone who essentially points out the ways the biplane/monoplane analogy doesn't appear perfect.

I'm not the one who identified Cybertruck as an exoskeleton, Elon did. The guy who conceived of the idea introduced it as an exoskeleton. People who want to try to bring Elon down to their level love to take potshots at everything he says.

I goggled "what vehicles have a exoskeleton" what vehicles have an exoskeleton

The ones I'm familiar with (Ariel Atom and the KTM X-Bow) are tubular frame with no external skin. Basically welded tubes that create a skeleton. You could attach side panels to them and they would still claim to be an exoskeleton approach. CT is clearly not a typical truck ladder frame. It's also not a Unibody like say a Honda Ridgeline. It's something different.

The Cybertruck is a unibody construction even if it's not like a Honda Ridgline. Just because they are both unibody, doesn't mean the differences are not huge. The Cybertrucks payload capacity is well over double that of the highest payload of the Ridgeline and the towing capacity is nearly triple! Yet it will only weigh ~35% more (and that includes the battery). This is possible because the skin of the vehicle is 3mm thick and hardened to increase its tensile strength. The skin of the Ridgeline is lightly stressed but the rest of the frame has to make up the difference because the skin is thin, soft (mild) steel. Not all things that look alike, function in a similar matter.

I incorrectly assumed there would be no internal tubing/skeleton and that somehow the entire truck would be exactly like a crab or insect. Clearly I never really thought about how it would be put together. So if the ss panels are hung on some type of internal frame network, how would that differ from a MS? The fact it's ss instead of aluminum means nothing of the body panels are hung on the same way.

You are looking at it incorrectly when you say the SS panels are "hung" on an internal frame network. The panels and the underlying frame, including the upper rear casting and the front and rear lower castings (including the structural pack), are unitized to act like one structure. The result is stronger and more rigid than the sum of the parts. That's what makes it unibody.

What makes it different from existing unibodies is that the 3 mm skin carries a much higher percentage of the internal loads meaning the rest of the structure can be built much lighter relative to it's load capacity than without the strength of the cold-rolled 3mm thick skin. This is beyond doubt now that we have seen photos that show how substantial and how numerous the underlying attachment points are.

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