Chevy Silverado EV RST functionality (tailgate, rear window, midgate, range, HUD) blows away Cybertruck

[pricedm]

Do not forget about the in-progress
Ford T3 "Trust the Truck" is the rallying cry for the development teams working on Ford's next-generation electric pickup truck, Project T3, which is expected to be released in 2025.

Ford T3 "Trust the Truck" ...is expected to be released in 2025.

DELAYED, TBD….

Sponsored

 

[scottf200]

Ford T3 "Trust the Truck" ...is expected to be released in 2025.
DELAYED, TBD….

Chevrolet/GM is certainly happy about that for sure.

Obviously, Tesla has 'super' fans (ala foundation $eries still being sold) that will buy no matter what.

The BlueOval in TN and KY are monstrous in size. They are built from ground up. They understand the assignment. [Aside: Tom M and Jim Farley inteview YT link]

Aside: I did own a couple of Chevy Volts (Gen 1 & 2 {kid drives now}) but drove a Ford Expedition as my previous ride (pulling a camper for family outings). Ford Explorer before that and old mustang.

 

[kpanda17]

Chevrolet/GM is certainly happy about that for sure.

Obviously, Tesla has 'super' fans (ala foundation $eries still being sold) that will buy no matter what.

The BlueOval in TN and KY are monstrous in size. They are built from ground up. They understand the assignment. [Aside: Tom M and Jim Farley inteview YT link]

Aside: I did own a couple of Chevy Volts (Gen 1 & 2 {kid drives now}) but drove a Ford Expedition as my previous ride (pulling a camper for family outings). Ford Explorer before that and old mustang.

think this is where we are now
GM Silverado EV demand will be there, now they have to build them, good work truck, maybe great once used heavily
Tesla CT, demand is there, will always be one of the best, great fun truck
T3 vaporware
R1T worried it not the right size, needed to be full size, will be niche
RAMEV, TBD
Lightning, worried, old and outdated
Hummer, niche

 

[BayouCityBob]

Tesla did the really stupid thing and short-changed the battery by 20 kwh. If they just bumped by 20 kwh they would have added a solid 50+ miles of range, handily beat most competitors and been close enough to the Chevy that is does not matter. The incremental pack cost is only $3k for 20 kwh. Surely they could have found room for it in the under-bed storage if nothing else. Tesla needs to stop shortchanging the batteries in its vehicles. Model 3/Y needs another 10 kwh. Model X needs another 10 as well. A little goes a long way on this.

 

[scottf200]

Tesla did the really stupid thing and short-changed the battery by 20 kwh. If they just bumped by 20 kwh they would have added a solid 50+ miles of range, handily beat most competitors and been close enough to the Chevy that is does not matter. The incremental pack cost is only $3k for 20 kwh. Surely they could have found room for it in the under-bed storage if nothing else. Tesla needs to stop shortchanging the batteries in its vehicles. Model 3/Y needs another 10 kwh. Model X needs another 10 as well. A little goes a long way on this.

Very reasonable thinking. Thanks.

Chart source (one of many show similar progress)

 

[BayouCityBob]

think this is where we are now
GM Silverado EV demand will be there, now they have to build them, good work truck, maybe great once used heavily
Tesla CT, demand is there, will always be one of the best, great fun truck
T3 vaporware
R1T worried it not the right size, needed to be full size, will be niche
RAMEV, TBD
Lightning, worried, old and outdated
Hummer, niche

R1T is a Tacoma competitor playing into a 500k per year market in the US. If it can hit a 10% market share in the mid-sized market, it will increase its sales by 400% vs 2023 (~12k R1Ts)
The full-sized truck market is 2.2 million in US so CT is playing into a domestic market that is 4X thee Rivian market but also highly competed.
Globally, the mid-sized market is much bigger than the full-sized market of course.
All of this dwarfed by small / mid-sized SUV market.

 

[Cyber Man]

You are being misleading. Many criteria has been pointed out a few times (see below).

The CT is more lifestyle than the others. The other manufacturers certainly celebrated when the final version of the CT came out. They know the general truck market and have empirical data on how their trucks are used in all the categories ... thus they can build theirs to fit statistically what they 'needed' to target. It is that simple.

I definitely understand that this thread is about the features you listed and how these features make Silverado standout really well compared to CT. I’m not misleading. Please convince me how any of the new Silverado features is a technological breakthrough and engineering marvel. People keep saying CT is a lifestyle truck. What exactly does that mean? I highly recommend reading a book called “Blue Ocean Strategy”. That’s precisely what Tesla has done with Cybertruck. They have created a new market segment, and for lack of better words we say “Lifestyle” vehicle. The fact that we say Lifestyle is a proof that they have pulled off an amazing Blue ocean Business strategy. Other manufacturers are busy making delta improvements and peddling the Red ocean. Some extra battery pack here, one nice feature there, fancy display at the front.. all incremental changes to stay afloat in highly competitive Truck market to cater to some segment of users. They will eventually fall off unless they make a breakthrough innovation. Just like how Cirque du Soleil created a Blue ocean and most traditional Circus companies don’t exist anymore. That example is taken from the book I mentioned. Unless other EV trucks come up with a new innovation to beat CT on all aspects, they are just burning cash to stay afloat. I really hope other manufacturers amp up their innovation to cater to the unique needs of the market segment they are serving - Rivian for adventurers and Ford for traditional Truck workers. The segment that CT wants to serve will be dominated by Tesla for a foreseeable future, as they are in Blue ocean with no competition in that segment. That’s why it took them 4 years. You can’t create a Blue ocean overnight. They failed on some of the original promises (price and range), but you need to dig deep on the technical aspects of what they have built to know why!

 

[kpanda17]

I definitely understand that this thread is about the features you listed and how these features make Silverado standout really well compared to CT. I’m not misleading. Please convince me how any of the new Silverado features is a technological breakthrough and engineering marvel. People keep saying CT is a lifestyle truck. What exactly does that mean? I highly recommend reading a book called “Blue Ocean Strategy”. That’s precisely what Tesla has done with Cybertruck. They have created a new market segment, and for lack of better words we say “Lifestyle” vehicle. The fact that we say Lifestyle is a proof that they have pulled off an amazing Blue ocean Business strategy. Other manufacturers are busy making delta improvements and peddling the Red ocean. Some extra battery pack here, one nice feature there, fancy display at the front.. all incremental changes to stay afloat in highly competitive Truck market to cater to some segment of users. They will eventually fall off unless they make a breakthrough innovation. Just like how Cirque du Soleil created a Blue ocean and most traditional Circus companies don’t exist anymore. That example is taken from the book I mentioned. Unless other EV trucks come up with a new innovation to beat CT on all aspects, they are just burning cash to stay afloat. I really hope other manufacturers amp up their innovation to cater to the unique needs of the market segment they are serving - Rivian for adventurers and Ford for traditional Truck workers. The segment that CT wants to serve will be dominated by Tesla for a foreseeable future, as they are in Blue ocean with no competition in that segment. That’s why it took them 4 years. You can’t create a Blue ocean overnight. They failed on some of the original promises (price and range), but you need to dig deep on the technical aspects of what they have built to know why!

good points
think the good old boy work truck buyer, some will consider the SilveradoEV, most will keep buying the ICE F150, others might consider the RAM ev thats coming, a smaller number will go with the CT
yes, blue ocean, CT enters and takes from those wanting lifestyle, maybe taking from the Raptor, people moving into EVs for the first time, other EV owners, other Tesla owners, maybe even R1T buyers bored and want more exciting
think the result will be:
legacy work truck, either stick with ICE full size or go SilveradoEV, RAM soon, Lightning declines, left behind
lifestyle truck, CT and ?, think you said it well blue ocean, new market
Taco clones R1T maybe, open field for new small EV entries
and of course above and below outliers

 

[Cyber Man]

good points
think the good old boy work truck buyer, some will consider the SilveradoEV, most will keep buying the ICE F150, others might consider the RAM ev thats coming, a smaller number will go with the CT
yes, blue ocean, CT enters and takes from those wanting lifestyle, maybe taking from the Raptor, people moving into EVs for the first time, other EV owners, other Tesla owners, maybe even R1T buyers bored and want more exciting
think the result will be:
legacy work truck, either stick with ICE full size or go SilveradoEV, RAM soon, Lightning declines, left behind
lifestyle truck, CT and ?, think you said it well blue ocean, new market
Taco clones R1T maybe, open field for new small EV entries
and of course above and below outliers

Exactly! You summarized it really well. If you look at the current trend of users buying CT, it’s all over the place - celebrities, techies, ranch owners, business owners, traditional truck owners, retired people, adventurers - it’s wild range. We don’t know how to categorize this segment, so we just say Lifestyle truck. That itself is a proof that Tesla has knowingly or unknowingly created blue ocean. Tesla doesn’t give a s*** about creating new demand because they don’t need more demand. No wonder they are still not allowing us to test drive CT. It infuriates me, but they don’t give a damn. They don’t have to fight for a fish when they have entire blue ocean to fish for several years, but I really hope they don’t play monopoly for long. We need CT prices to either go down or at least stay the same for few years.

 

[scottf200]

I definitely understand that this thread is about the features you listed and how these features make Silverado standout really well compared to CT. I’m not misleading. Please convince me how any of the new Silverado features is a technological breakthrough and engineering marvel. People keep saying CT is a lifestyle truck. What exactly does that mean? I highly recommend reading a book called “Blue Ocean Strategy”. That’s precisely what Tesla has done with Cybertruck. They have created a new market segment, and for lack of better words we say “Lifestyle” vehicle. The fact that we say Lifestyle is a proof that they have pulled off an amazing Blue ocean Business strategy. Other manufacturers are busy making delta improvements and peddling the Red ocean. Some extra battery pack here, one nice feature there, fancy display at the front.. all incremental changes to stay afloat in highly competitive Truck market to cater to some segment of users. They will eventually fall off unless they make a breakthrough innovation. Just like how Cirque du Soleil created a Blue ocean and most traditional Circus companies don’t exist anymore. That example is taken from the book I mentioned. Unless other EV trucks come up with a new innovation to beat CT on all aspects, they are just burning cash to stay afloat. I really hope other manufacturers amp up their innovation to cater to the unique needs of the market segment they are serving - Rivian for adventurers and Ford for traditional Truck workers. The segment that CT wants to serve will be dominated by Tesla for a foreseeable future, as they are in Blue ocean with no competition in that segment. That’s why it took them 4 years. You can’t create a Blue ocean overnight. They failed on some of the original promises (price and range), but you need to dig deep on the technical aspects of what they have built to know why!

Tech (some new but most old news):
I understand some of that and know *all* the technical details of the cybertruck as when it was finally revealed I read all the tech articles and deep dive videos. You are not telling me anything tech about the CT that I don't very likely know.

It was odd you really think that is why there was a 4 year gap tho. Variable steering has been proven in other vehicles. The 48v is great but not innovative at all and not the reason other companies have not done it yet. Much of these tech things are well known.

Casting is innovative as well as building the vehicles in more pieces including mounting seats to the floor. Other things way less so. SS is pretty far up in the air. It has some pros and various cons.

Unique (beta test customers) approach / blue ocean:
I understand the blue ocean concept and something that are being done by Tesla. Othering things are just downright dumb ... like taking mulitple years to get NN wiper sensors to work. Or moving turn signals from fixed location and consistent stalks to buttons constantly in motion. At least they redesigned them for the CT (feedback).

OTAs exist for reasons not because unknown tech:
OTAs are awesome and Rivian is on the mark with them too putting out new features monthly. Other companies were held back by 100s of suppliers and the 100s of APIs involved. Jim Farley talked about this at length in interviews. Ford, GM, etc will get that ironed out too (ie. T3 will be very different than F150 lightening).

Input given:
I appreciate your input and angle. Some things made sense. Others it felt you were over the top and not appreciating the whys in the industry during this whole automative change.

Pickup truckes evolved long before Tesla!:
Pickup trucks in general have evolved from long bed work to SUVs with short beds. Tesla didn't make that happen it was a progression. Yes, I think Tesla CT is more lifestyle than work and pretty long wheelbase for real offroad. Lot of celebs driving cybertrucks and Tesla is pushing that image. I think it will hit a market of those that drive trucks for general SUV w/bed purpose and occasional work BUT Ford, GM, etc already have these trucks and many have various features in them to make them 'offices' on wheel. ie. Ford's big interior work surface.

Sure some are using the CT in the other categories (work, range, etc) but it doesn't do that as well as many others. It is a lifestyle and people that like the showiness of it in many cases.

Fan vs 'Super' fan:
I'm a Tesla fan, for sure, but not a 'super' fan that defends everything they do and every decision they make is boasted as a brilliant innovative unique idea. They have the benefit of starting from scratch. That has given them a HUGE edge and why they benefited in some ways. Rivan is similar.

Hope that helps explain my angle.

 

[Cyber Man]

I understand some of that and know all the technical details of the cybertruck as when it was finally revealed I read all the tech articles and deep dive videos.

It was odd you really think that is why there was a 4 year gap tho. Variable steering has been proven in other vehicles. The 48v is great but not innovative at all and not the reason other companies have not done it yet. Much of these tech things are well know.

Casting is innovative as well as building the vehicles in more pieces including mounting seats to the floor. Other things way less so. SS is pretty far up in the air. It has some pros and various cons.

I understand the blue ocean concept and something that are being done by Tesla. Othering things are just downright dumb ... like taking mulitple years to get wiper sensors to work. Or moving turn signals from fixed location and consistent stalks to buttons constantly in motion. At least they redesigned them for the CT (feedback).

OTAs are awesome and Rivian is on the mark with them too putting out new features monthly. Other companies were held back by 100s of suppliers and the 100s of APIs involved. Jim Farely talked about this at length in interviews. Ford, GM, etc will get that ironed out too (ie. T3 will be very different than F150 lightening).

I appreciate your input and angle. Something made sense. Others it felt you were over the top and not appreciating the whys in the industry during this whole automative change.

Pickup trucks in general have evolved from long bed work to SUVs with short beds. Tesla didn't make that happen it was a progression. Yes, I think Tesla CT is more lifestyle than work and pretty long wheelbase for real offroad. Lot of celebs driving cybertrucks and Tesla is pushing that image. I think it will hit a market of those that drive trucks for general SUV w/bed purpose and occasional work BUT Ford, GM, etc already have these trucks and many have various features in them to make them 'offices' on wheel. ie. Ford's big interior work surface.

Sure some are using the CT in the other categories (work, range, etc) but it doesn't do that as well as many others. It is a lifestyle and people that like the showiness of it in many cases.

I'm a Tesla fan, for sure, but not a 'super' fan that defends everything they do and ever decision they make like like it was a brilliant innovative unique idea. They have the benefit of starting from scratch. That has given them a HUGE edge and why they benefited in some ways. Rivan is similar.

Hope that helps explain my angle.

I’m glad we agree on few things. I understand your perspective on the reason behind why some of these automative changes are happening. I was merely pointing out that Tesla is not playing by the rules to dominate traditional truck market. So, it’s not straightforward to compare feature by feature. I don’t even own a Tesla. I’m not a fanboy yet. I’m actually Porsche fanboy. Many of my friends who own Tesla complain about build quality issues and such. I have a laundry list of things I expected from CT, including the pass through feature that Silverado has. I just love that feature. I’m actually glad that traditional manufacturers keep adding these appealing features to keep the market competitive. Now I can hope that CT version 2 might have a pass through rear window. As long as there is demand for the current specs, Tesla will just focus on increasing the supply. That’s the hard reality of Cybertruck for next few years. None of these features added by competitors will get Tesla’s attention for a few years, because they are not competing in red ocean. They are busy increasing supply in blue ocean.

 

[pricedm]

think this is where we are now
GM Silverado EV demand will be there, now they have to build them, good work truck, maybe great once used heavily
Tesla CT, demand is there, will always be one of the best, great fun truck
T3 vaporware
R1T worried it not the right size, needed to be full size, will be niche
RAMEV, TBD
Lightning, worried, old and outdated
Hummer, niche

Agree with your list.!

I would add one more-- Dodge Ramcharger: Good option for those who have highly un-aerodynamic trailers (larger boats, travel trailers, etc.) and tow long distances. This will be a good option until Tesla Semi-like technology makes its way to pickup trucks.

I agree with Lucid--putting a "large" battery in a vehicle is not an effective way to achive range. Driving dynamics of the Chevy EVs with large batteries is going to be dubious

 

[FutureTruck]

Silverado not widely available to the public
CT battery pack does not exist and likely won't the biggest feature of a Tesla FSD is nowhere to be seen

Both of these trucks are not yet a prefect solution for anyone

The edge that Chevy has currently is the range, one of the biggest considerations for an EV and 440-460 is getting pretty close to the 500 mile promised land we were promised in 2019

 

[FutureTruck]

The GOOD news for the Cybertruck is the 500+ mile range battery looks like it is coming on a later version. Plenty of room in the design and all but confirmed by Wes, so a CT that can tow more than 100 miles is likely going to be coming once the Foundation Series run is done.

Pretty smart by Tesla, sell the Foundation Series to the celebs and youtubers who will never haul a trailer and just need it to get from their mansion to the recording studio, then release the version for those that need the promised range.

 

[scottf200]

Fair amount of effort has gone on with GM and LG over the past few years to ramp up.
>>>

Ultium Cells, a joint venture between General Motors and LG Energy Solution, has announced the production and shipment of the first battery cells produced at the Ultium Cells plant in Spring Hill, Tennessee. The announcement comes two and a half years after the company initially broke ground for construction of the new facility, with plans to produce millions of units of battery cells annually for use in new GM electric vehicles.​

The Spring Hill plant joins the first plant in Lordstown, Ohio in producing Ultium battery cells. A third plant in Lansing, Michigan is under construction and scheduled to open in late 2024 and a fourth has broken ground in New Carlisle, Indiana.​

The initial Spring Hill battery cell units were shipped to the neighboring GM Spring Hill assembly plant, where they will be used in the production of the Cadillac Lyriq crossover. The upcoming Acura ZDX crossover is also expected to roll off the Spring Hill assembly line, cradling new Ultium batteries.​

After the Spring Hill fully ramps up it will be the main battery supplier for the Tennessee (Lyriq) and Mexico (Blazer and Equinox) assembly plants. Ulitum Ohio will then focus on supplying the trucks and Brightdrop vans in the north. ​

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