GM vs Cybertruck battery size & $

[Kingdom1st]

Math below based on TFL truck video

Pack size of the GM must be around 225kwh.
1.1 miles/kwh efficiency=250 mile towing range if driven to 0.
Truck said it had 475 when fully charged before towing which with a 225kwh pack would give it 2.11 miles/kwh efficiency rate while Not towing. Not too bad.

Cybertruck will have better efficiency.
If we “assume” cybertruck achieves efficiency of 2.5 miles/kWh, it would only need a 190kwh pack to go the same 475 mile range. Batteries are right around $100/kwh at the pack level not cell level.
GM- 225kwh x $100=$22,500 battery pack
Cybertruck- 190kwh x $100=$19,000 pack price

assuming GM pays more per kWh for batteries than Tesla producing vertically in house, this best case apples to apples comparison means Tesla will produce cybertruck for a minimum $3500 cheaper at the pack level. Not even considering building the rest of the truck, no paint, giga casting, etc

Nerding out for my own enjoyment

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[BayouCityBob]

Battery on the Hummer is 212.5 kwh usable. This is 99.9% likely same pack.

GM will be paying at or a bit over the industry average price for battery packs (it is a small player in EVs). That would put them at $138 / kwh. Tesla is paying near industry leading prices (BYD lower) at $100 - $110. All according to BNEF benchmarking end 2022.

 

[CyberGus]

"The battery was expensive in this case because it was discontinued and had to be bought at a high cost from a third-party supplier."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-volt-battery-electric-car-hybrid/7935230001/

 

[scottf200]

Cybertruck will have better efficiency.
If we “assume” cybertruck achieves efficiency of 2.5 miles/kWh, it would only need a 190kwh pack to go the same 475 mile range.

Absolutely zero proof of that.

Elon said he hoped to get Cd of 0.30 for the CT.

Cd of the Rivian is 0.30. Proof it doesn't have to be a triangle as there are many other methods. The Rivian areo YT videos showed that that have been posted multiple times.

CT towing will be very similar to the other truck BEVs as areo doesn't matter much. This means if areo is better on the highway that will be overshadowed in towing demonstrations that certainly will be head to-head.

 

[Kingdom1st]

Battery on the Hummer is 212.5 kwh usable. This is 99.9% likely same pack.

GM will be paying at or a bit over the industry average price for battery packs (it is a small player in EVs). That would put them at $138 / kwh. Tesla is paying near industry leading infoprices (BYD lower) at $100 - $110. All according to BNEF benchmarking end 2022.

Great info I appreciate it. I wonder if the 212 usable in the hummer is truly a 225ish. Because the GM was at 100% and they plugged it in and it charged for a while longer and kept adding energy. At only 212 actual I don’t think the GM truck could’ve achieved the towing range it did. Must be sone reserve built into them

 

[Kingdom1st]

Absolutely zero proof of that.

Elon said he hoped to get Cd of 0.30 for the CT.

Zero proof of what exactly? My post didn’t claim proof of anything but even put the word “assume” in quotes and did some number crunching for fun to game out possibilities.

I like the chart you shared but exactly are you trying to get at? Pack size? Efficiency? I’m just trying to understand what you meant.

 

[Kingdom1st]

That would be brutal

 

[BayouCityBob]

Pretty remarkable that GM is charging $27,000 for $2,200 worth of battery pack! But then again, this is a problem with PHEVs. They get a LOT of cycles on their batteries for very few miles driven. A Volt can easily run through 250 cycles in a year. The battery is only good for ~1,500 cycles. By contrast, a Silverado EV won't hit 1,500 cycles until it gets to 600,000 miles.

 

[Kingdom1st]

Pretty remarkable that GM is charging $27,000 for $2,200 worth of battery pack! But then again, this is a problem with PHEVs. They get a LOT of cycles on their batteries for very few miles driven. A Volt can easily run through 250 cycles in a year. The battery is only good for ~1,500 cycles. By contrast, a Silverado EV won't hit 1,500 cycles until it gets to 600,000 miles.

That’s crazy I never thought of how many cycles plug-in hybrids go through.

 

[scottf200]

Zero proof of what exactly? My post didn’t claim proof of anything but even put the word “assume” in quotes and did some number crunching for fun to game out possibilities.

I like the chart you shared but exactly are you trying to get at? Pack size? Efficiency? I’m just trying to understand what you meant.

Sorry.

The chart is to start to do some real world comparisons. Why did you assume such numbers that were way better than the competition? The Cd so far has not been proven to be better. My point about what Rivian was able to accomplish to get Cd was that you don't need a triangle.

My point about towing still stands. The triangle CT areo wouldn't seem to help with towing something that causes so much drags itself. Still we may be surprised. The Tesla motors are efficient and I've done some towing in my X. It did better than expected losing like 1/3 or 2/5 instead of the common 1/2.

 

[Kingdom1st]

Sorry.

The chart is to start to do some real world comparisons. Why did you assume such numbers that were way better than the competition? The Cd so far has not been proven to be better. My point about what Rivian was able to accomplish to get Cd was that you don't need a triangle.

My point about towing still stands. The triangle CT areo wouldn't seem to help with towing something that causes so much drags itself. Still we may be surprised. The Tesla motors are efficient and I've done some towing in my X. It did better than expected losing like 1/3 or 2/5 instead of the common 1/2.

Oh OK thanks that’s helpful. I think I understand what you mean now. You are talking about drag coefficient but I wasn’t really referring to that. I was just making an assumption that the cyber truck will be more efficient in terms of battery tech and drivetrain tech and just tech in general, which will likely give it more miles per kilowatt hour than the GM. I guess I am just assuming that all things being equal like drag coefficient between the two, I would definitely put my money on the cyber truck getting more miles per kilowatt hour, because Tesla is just better than everyone else at the end of the day.

It’s pretty rad to think though that if cyber truck top model has a 212 pack and they just barely beat the lightning in miles per kilowatt hour efficiency and squeak out 2.5, it will have 530 miles of range. Crossing my fingers.

 

[WHIZZARD OF OZ]

Math below based on TFL truck video

Pack size of the GM must be around 225kwh.
1.1 miles/kwh efficiency=250 mile towing range if driven to 0.
Truck said it had 475 when fully charged before towing which with a 225kwh pack would give it 2.11 miles/kwh efficiency rate while Not towing. Not too bad.

Cybertruck will have better efficiency.
If we “assume” cybertruck achieves efficiency of 2.5 miles/kWh, it would only need a 190kwh pack to go the same 475 mile range. Batteries are right around $100/kwh at the pack level not cell level.
GM- 225kwh x $100=$22,500 battery pack
Cybertruck- 190kwh x $100=$19,000 pack price

assuming GM pays more per kWh for batteries than Tesla producing vertically in house, this best case apples to apples comparison means Tesla will produce cybertruck for a minimum $3500 cheaper at the pack level. Not even considering building the rest of the truck, no paint, giga casting, etc

Nerding out for my own enjoyment

Your 2.5 miles/ kWh v. 3.1 miles/ kWh gives us a clue on what is coming. The pack l have sits at 175 kWh with a usable ~164 kWh or so. Been 'nerding out' previously with the SEMI where the 850 kWh pack resulted in 1.7 kWh consumption over the mile. The 1.7 was luckily correct ......the CYBERCELL could make the CT a viable unit especially in the high end spec PLAID/QUAD TRI/PERFORMANCE.

 

[RVAC]

The chart is to start to do some real world comparisons. Why did you assume such numbers that were way better than the competition? The Cd so far has not been proven to be better. My point about what Rivian was able to accomplish to get Cd was that you don't need a triangle.

You're forgetting Cybertruck will likely come in at ~1,000 lbs less than the R1T. You're also not using the right figures:

R1T Quad 328mi (135kWh) = 2.43 mi/kWh
F-150 Lightning ER 4WD 320mi (131kWh) = 2.44 mi/kWh

 

[cvalue13]

The triangle CT areo wouldn't seem to help with towing something that causes so much drags itself. Still we may be surprised.

it’s the inverse, generally speaking

the more aero the lead vehicle, the greater the range impact of a given trailer

I’d expect the CT to experience greater range impact from towing, all else equal.

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