Cyberbeast vs Cybertruck AWD Comparison

[JBee]

The beast tri motor also has several additional selectable 4WD modes that the AWD version does not (such as rock crawl)

Where did you see that?

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[scottf200]

Where did you see that?

Just pointing out Baja vs Overland UIs. I don't know about the Dual vs Tri-Beast.
BTW, I think Rivan has different modes for their Quad vs Dual.

 

[cvalue13]

Interior trim colors/materials differences, premium wheels standard, type stuff

again, directionally, think Model S vs Model S Plaid type of segmentation

I should correct that, seeing some static that CB has some offroad drive modes not on the dual - don’t know. But seems possible the unique rear motors permit of unique drive settings.

interested to see someone show details on this

you know, for the 10 people on earth over next few years who legit rock crawl their 100K long wheelbase pickup

 

[JBee]

Just pointing out Baja vs Overland UIs. I don't know about the Dual vs Tri-Beast.
BTW, I think Rivan has different modes for their Quad vs Dual.

WADE MODE!!!!

Dude scroll down!!! Show me the options! ?

I can see the difference between the two screens, one being baja the other overland, but as you say both of those are Tri-motor as it doesn't have a rear diff lock like the dual.

I haven't assigned many brain cycles to what the mode differences could be between them, but I'm thinking for offroad they would be very similar, but different for onroad, with the TM using torque vectoring ("TV") for drift mode etc.

It's the higher RPM stuff where the TV on the TM will shine, whilst the slow rock crawling type stuff the DM with lockers will rule for sure, were high synchronous torque is required.

There's nothing particularly new on those menu screens compared to a single motor ICE 4X4, except for the front rear drive bias slider. Which although possible with a ICE 4x4 with a center diff is not normally configurable with a menu.

All the other modes are just to configure the traction control (TC) and stability assist which has been common on even soft roader SUVs for decades.

Except of course WADE MODE!

I can't wait to take it deep sea fishing!! If it works on Mars it should work underwater, right, right?? lol.

 

[scottf200]

WADE MODE!!!!

Dude scroll down!!! Show me the options! ?

I can see the difference between the two screens, one being baja the other overland, but as you say both of those are Tri-motor as it doesn't have a rear diff lock like the dual.

I haven't assigned many brain cycles to what the mode differences could be between them, but I'm thinking for offroad they would be very similar, but different for onroad, with the TM using torque vectoring ("TV") for drift mode etc.

It's the higher RPM stuff where the TV on the TM will shine, whilst the slow rock crawling type stuff the DM with lockers will rule for sure, were high synchronous torque is required.

There's nothing particularly new on those menu screens compared to a single motor ICE 4X4, except for the front rear drive bias slider. Which although possible with a ICE 4x4 with a center diff is not normally configurable with a menu.

All the other modes are just to configure the traction control (TC) and stability assist which has been common on even soft roader SUVs for decades.

Except of course WADE MODE!

I can't wait to take it deep sea fishing!! If it works on Mars it should work underwater, right, right?? lol.

I lost track of what video that was in. LIkely the Hagerty Jason Cammisa one.

Rem: Rivian [quad vs dual?] has:

• Off-Road Drift (30 seconds in)
• Off-Road Auto
• Off-Road Rock Crawl
• Off-Road Rally
• Off-Road Sand (not in video as added later)

Rivian video: https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...baja-live-streamed-by-tesla.9442/#post-183766

 

[Stuck4ger]

I haven’t been able to find this info. Do you have a source? I know the dual motor Rivian lacks some of those modes that are in their quad motor.

I saw the different features in one of the review videos already linked on this site.

 

[SlegMD]

Super happy to hear about locking differentials on to DM, I had perceived only the tri was receiving off road goodies.

 

[JBee]

I lost track of what video that was in. LIkely the Hagerty Jason Cammisa one.

Rem: Rivian [quad vs dual?] has:

• Off-Road Drift (30 seconds in)
• Off-Road Auto
• Off-Road Rock Crawl
• Off-Road Rally
• Off-Road Sand (not in video as added later)

Rivian video: https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...baja-live-streamed-by-tesla.9442/#post-183766

Sorry my enthusiasm for the "Wade Mode" got the better of me. I really want this thing to float!

The available modes interest me, but I couldn't find them mentioned in the first video.

I haven't seen the drift feature mode, and that would be limited to the TM with rear torque vectoring.

All the rest, except maybe "rally mode" that could also use the torque vectoring drift mode, should be available on the DM.

As before these modes have been available on ICE 4x4's for decades.

 

[tmeyer3]

While I'm certainly not a major "off-road enthusiast", based on my understanding of the benefits, wouldn't the lockers in the front and the rear be a pro for the Dual/AWD over the Tri having just one in the front? I get that torque vectoring has its use-cases but the fact that they (locking differentials) exist at all on the dual is a huge win for those of us that are leaning towards the value offered by the Dual/AWD variant!

Sorry if this was already answered.
Independent wheel control > diff lockers. Differentials are just gear boxes to distribute rotational power from a single source to two wheels with a bias toward lowest rotational resistance. Basically, if one wheel is off the ground (lower resistance) because of terrain/a rock it'll absorb all the energy from the motor and spin uselessly, leaving the engaged wheel with nothing. By locking the differential, it's like temporarily removing it and forcing power to go 50/50 to both wheels. When you have a separate energy source for each wheel a differential no longer has any function.

 

[Dman_CT]

Sorry if this was already answered.
Independent wheel control > diff lockers. Differentials are just gear boxes to distribute rotational power from a single source to two wheels with a bias toward lowest rotational resistance. Basically, if one wheel is off the ground (lower resistance) because of terrain/a rock it'll absorb all the energy from the motor and spin uselessly, leaving the engaged wheel with nothing. By locking the differential, it's like temporarily removing it and forcing power to go 50/50 to both wheels. When you have a separate energy source for each wheel a differential no longer has any function.

True, but the hardware to monitor the different side-to-side wheel rpm and the software to manage it for the real traction situation need to work quickly and effectively. A ‘locking differential“ - and yeah it’s not really a differential - that forces the two wheels to rotate at the same speed and can be engaged by the driver quickly and unambiguously, and often pre-emptively before any spin is detected, is very handy in off-road situations.

 

[VR Driving]

True, but the hardware to monitor the different side-to-side wheel rpm and the software to manage it for the real traction situation need to work quickly and effectively. A ‘locking differential“ - and yeah it’s not really a differential - that forces the two wheels to rotate at the same speed and can be engaged by the driver quickly and unambiguously, and often pre-emptively before any spin is detected, is very handy in off-road situations.

The 48v system solved this. When your steering wheel is already completely disconnected they can simulate the feedback with zero latency, getting two motors to work like a locking diff is trivial.

The only reason the Dual Motor gets a locking diff is because the Tri-Motor eliminated it. There is simply no need for a locking diff when you have independent motors powering each wheel.

 

[Tiberius]

The "proposed" $68,890 DM price is much more reasonable, and given the front and rear lockers, technically maybe even superior off-road.

Sadly the price is 79k
That $68k is after "savings"

 

[Tiberius]

Interesting, from the EPA report, the three motors are permanent magnet not 1xperm & 2xinduction

 

[HaulingAss]

True, but the hardware to monitor the different side-to-side wheel rpm and the software to manage it for the real traction situation need to work quickly and effectively. A ‘locking differential“ - and yeah it’s not really a differential - that forces the two wheels to rotate at the same speed and can be engaged by the driver quickly and unambiguously, and often pre-emptively before any spin is detected, is very handy in off-road situations.

No one said a locker (on an otherwise open differential) is not very handy in limited traction situations. It's unclear why you say a locking differential is not really a differential because it absolutely is a differential, and functions as such whenever it is not locked. It's an open differential with the ability to lock (bypass the function of a differential) upon command. I think you meant to say a locked differential is not functioning as a differential. But that is a temporary condition.

But you seem to be under the impression that electronic motor controls are not precise enough and not quick enough to perform better than a locked differential. That is false. A locked differential has no option but to do one thing, turn both wheels at the same speed, no matter what. Two independent motors can do that with a high degree of precision, right up to the limits of traction.

That is true because for a motor like the A/C induction units on the rear axles of the Cyberbeast to even function at all, requires extremely accurate positional information. As to any delays introduced by the digital controls, that is nil. The CAN bus system in the Cybertruck is all new, and I have heard it is something like 2000 times faster than previous generations. I'm not even convinced that previous generations introduce enough delay to matter. In any case, at speeds at which one might engage a locking differential, there is no significant delay as to how quickly the torque can be modulated to effectively "lock" the rear wheels together.

However, that assumes having the rear wheels locked is the most desireable condition, which would rarely be the case, even in situations where one might choose to lock a locking differential. Two motors can be finely modulated based upon not only slippage, but the possibilities are also mind-boggling. For example, the Cyberbeast will almost certainly know it's position in 3D space relative to gravity (yaw, pitch and roll). It will also know it's instantaneous motion in that space. This information is all independent of what the wheels are doing. One BIG disadvantage of a mechanical locker is it is absolute, it naturally fights any turning inputs. Any turning the vehicle does can only be accomplished if one tire is slipping which reduces the ability of that tire to drive the vehicle forward.

Yes, you are correct that the software must be capable enough to make this an advantage of having two motors on the same axle, but Tesla already does sophisticated motor control on the Plaid Model S as do other manufacturers who leverage the advantage of torque vectoring.

Anyone who thinks Tesla will not leverage their expertise in controlling individual motors to an advantage off-road is not thinking clearly. There is no way Tesla will miss this opportunity. I'm not saying the Cyberbeast will be fully developed out of the box, that's not how Tesla does it. If it follows the same kind of software development that I saw in my 2018 Performance Model 3 that I took delivery of very near the introduction of that model in mid-2018, then the software will be refined during the first year or so of introduction and applied via software updates. Because the AWD and Performance Model 3's only have front/rear motor control, and not side/side as we see in the Plaid powertrains, the Cyberbeast software development might take longer to reach maturity as the theories as to what is desirable off-road, in modes improving upon a mechanical locker, is less established in the automotive world.

The opportunities are endless with all the processing speed and power available, and the knowledge of the vehicles position and motion in 3D space. Such a system will eclipse mechanical lockers by a large degree in more technical off-road situations, especially those requiring tight manuevering with the steering wheel on steep/slippery slopes with questionable traction. The fact that the Rivian has been out for over two years and is still not very impressive in tricky situations (considering it has four digitally controlled motors) does not speak as to how Tesla will leverage these opportunities. It's all in the implementation. A mechanical locker is very good at churning through a mud pit, but the limitations are obvious in more technical driving situations (even if a huge improvement over an open differential).

The best thing about independent left/right motor control compared to a locking differential, is the electronic controls allow their use in all driving situations, even on clean dry pavement. A mechanical locker, for practical reasons, must be disengaged for any manuevering on pavement.

All that said, my needs for off-roading are to get to wild places, not to make first ascents or impress others, and the dual motor Cybertruck will more than capable in tricky situations for my needs (and it too will get better over time as its off-road modes are refined and improved). I will take whichever model I can get sooner and maybe even upgrade as Cybertruck hardware is further improved/developed over the years.

If the release of the Cybertuck to reservation holders follows previous Tesla conventions, Tesla will contact you when you can buy any configuration when your turn comes up. If you want a configuration that is not yet ready (regardless of what configuration you actually reserved) then you can maintain your place in line while declining delivery of a configuration you don't want, and Tesla will contact you again when your preferred configuration is available.

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