egandalf

Well-known member
First Name
James
Joined
May 18, 2020
Threads
3
Messages
192
Reaction score
505
Location
41144
Vehicles
2010 Toyota Tacoma
Country flag
Toyotas are well made vehicles. What's your criteria for fit and finish?
Primarily that a casual inspection won't identify any issues on either vehicle. A more thorough visual inspection might notice that some gaps aren't perfectly even from end-to-end. No obvious panel misalignments, no panels jutting out from the body more than others. At least on my car.

I didn't use calipers or a gauge on either vehicle, if that's what you're asking. I don't claim to be a pro, here.

The Toyota had some noticeable, but not terrible, orange peel. The same is true on the Tesla, but it's white so it's harder to tell without inspecting closely. Neither has enough to bother me.

The orange peel on my 12yo Tacoma is horrendous, but that's a much older vehicle.

Your newer Model Y replaced an older
Toyota. That's not an apples to apples comparison for fit and finish.
How do you mean?

I'm comparing a reasonably new (2017) Highlander to a brand new Model Y. The former is from an established manufacturer and a vehicle that's been in production for a long time. The latter is a new manufacturer on an only moderately established production line (Fremont) for the specific model.

In this case, I would expect the highlander to have the advantage, not the Tesla.

The complaint of Tesla's fit and finish (whatever that means) is not overstated today. Tesla has improved, but still has a ways to go before "Fit and Finish" comparisons can be made with a Toyota/Lexus.
I disagree, but I think it may be subjective to one's level of sensitivity. Is Tesla objectively worse in fit & finish? Possibly, but without taking a gauge and appropriate sample size of vehicles off the line in the same window of time, neither you nor I can say that with any authority one way or the other.

The real problem with my statement was that it was apparently based on a sample size of one, which is a pitfall most people fall into ("it works for me" mentality).

I'm not an auto pro nor a detailer, so what you notice and what I notice might be wildly different.

But I also disagree based on the lack of issues I've seen in the communities I follow for specifically Model Y fit & finish issues. Are there no issues? Or are there no complaints? Those are separate concerns.

There's also the confirmation bias that comes into play where people tend to look more closely at the Tesla than they do the Toyota, in general. By that I mean that the typical Toyota buyer will barely scrutinize panel gaps. Whereas the typical Tesla buyer has likely done more homework, heard of these issues, and will be more likely to go searching for them.

 

Huntsman

Well-known member
First Name
Kevin
Joined
Dec 22, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
80
Reaction score
140
Location
Huntsville
Vehicles
F150 (SSCTIIFSD) stainless steel cyber truck dual
Occupation
Heavy Equipment Ops
Country flag
...and will be more likely to go searching for them.
You are exactly correct. I walked thru a collectors showroom with a exotic car collector. He beat the fit drum regarding Tesla over and over as he had heard of problems. We were standing next to Maserati that had obvious misfits - so bad I thought it had been in a collision. Not just grill to headlight but hood to fender. The grill had actually chipped the paint on the hood. I pointed them out, one after another. He justified them in the light that most of the car is handmade. Then the salesman came over singing the same song.
While Elon is not the manpower of assembly, when the boss takes an interest in fit and finish AND that boss is one who does not accept CAN’T as a solution, things change.
I think Tesla will continue to improve on quality while Detroit continues to accept mediocrity. Look at Hyundai paint - not 20 years ago but the last 3 years. It rivals the finest luxury cars because they sought to change their reputation and CAN’T was not an option. The assembly process of this CT will be 21st century fit for Mars and beyond.
 

uff_da

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
96
Reaction score
223
Location
North Dakota
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
The situation we face is called "paralysis by analysis", i.e., the inability to make a final decision because of always looking at another improving scenario.

In this case, it is often a competitor's new design feature. The RWS is a great idea that did not originate with TESLA but is worth an extra 6 month wait to incorporate. I am sure there are other great ideas that fall in this category. The problem is you cannot wait forever and unless an extra special, super PLAID idea comes along, then finalize the model design and move on to production. (We will add the other cool features on the next model!)

BTW, this FINAL model decision is made at a VERY high level in a company. The only wild card I see at this point is battery technology. It seems to be changing weekly and a significant improvement may warrant a corresponding delay in production.

Except for that, I WANT my CT. :)
My hunch is that Elon doesn't really care that much about the competition. I think he drove the CT prototype some and thought the turning radius was terrible and they should fix that. I still remember some shot of it driving in New York City and it pulling on to the road from a parking lot. It looked like an 18-wheeler going wide into the oncoming lane.

I think designers/engineers will use all the time you give them to continue to iterate design. If 4680 delay and supply chain constraints kept extending the "freeze" deadline, of course they are going to keep working at improving the design.

The battery tech for CT is already decided (4680). Getting it to production scale required for Model Y, CT, and Semi is the constraint for (volume) production.
 

CyberKeen

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
6
Reaction score
4
Location
Mississippi
Vehicles
Cybertruck
Country flag
Sure hope production starts a little sooner, my 22 year old dodge ram is getting pretty old.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jow


rr6013

Well-known member
First Name
Rex
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Threads
43
Messages
1,242
Reaction score
1,197
Location
Coronado Bay Panama
Website
shorttakes.substack.com
Vehicles
1997 Tahoe 2 door 4x4
Occupation
Retired software developer and heavy commercial design builder
Country flag
BMW invented fit & trim setting a bar high for cars back in the 80’s. Newer paints, new spray booths and a host of chemistry underneath achieve a factory finish literally God-like perfection in gloss and symmetry even for matt finishes.

Teslas need be judged on those merits. Cybertrucks…are Trucks. Trucks hew to designated naming schemes. Gaps 😮💨 phew-y. Alignments? We’ll see, IDK. You expect car perfection buy a Tesla X, not CT.

Here’s the bottomline, hauling stresses the exoskelton truck frame by engineering it to move…or s$*+ breaks. So 3500# payload in the bed is designed into the frame. As is 14000# load pulling in tension on the exoskelton; all-at-the-same-time!

Gaps? Expect the windows to need adjusting NBD. As long as the door locks are compliant and doors swing freely, gaps are how trucks work. IDRA castings enable exoskelton by providing the integration of the platform(frt casting,struct. batt. pk,rrcasting) into the bottom chord of the exoskelton truss as a structural member instead of pickup points. So now Cybertruck is more stiff longitudinally and more efficiently translates forces in the longitudinal than vertical. Which means less work on the exoskelton, the less stress forces are transmitted as isolated point loads and more the frame behaves as a monolithic structure. At risk here is Cybertruck being too stiff. IH(Int’l Harvester) owners understand.

Cybertruck, Tesla have on their hands a feat of incredible engineering. Mercedes is best in the business on human factors engineering. First Gen? Expect Cybertruck overshoot/undershoots. Pray that CT is not too stiff to be comfortable MTY. Hope CT isn’t so compliant to steer like a boat fully loaded. By Gen3 all such issues should get engineered out of what is an entirely new truck platform.

After Gen3, panels misaligned, gaps where there shouldn’t and torsional artifacts visible or subsequent to loading the frame are all demerits. Interestingly, Tesla’s biggest after sale is how Cyber it lives up to its moniker.
 

CyberGus

Well-known member
First Name
Gus
Joined
May 22, 2021
Threads
17
Messages
1,315
Reaction score
4,040
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
1981 DeLorean, 2023 Cybertruck
Occupation
IT Specialist
Country flag
Which model did you reserve? From what I remember reading, it depends more on the model reserved then the number within that model. I'm in the 50K range but for a dual motor, which isn't supposed to be coming out first. I don't know if the numbers were by model or strictly by your order in reserving. Either way, if the 4 motor is first, then I'll be waiting a long time and I don't believe I would be able to keep my number and change my model.
I am absolutely certain that the first deliveries will be based on the customers' distance from the factory.

Sincerely,
CyberGus
Austin, TX
 

CyberGus

Well-known member
First Name
Gus
Joined
May 22, 2021
Threads
17
Messages
1,315
Reaction score
4,040
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
1981 DeLorean, 2023 Cybertruck
Occupation
IT Specialist
Country flag
Hopefully by the time it goes into production the damn wing mirror rule will be gone. I plan to upgrade my order when the final configuration comes out to move up in line since the $100K+ Plaid ones will come out first.
Elon indicated that the mirrors will be easily removable. I'm good either way, since every vehicle I've owned up to now had mirrors, and they did not offend me.
 

CyberGus

Well-known member
First Name
Gus
Joined
May 22, 2021
Threads
17
Messages
1,315
Reaction score
4,040
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
1981 DeLorean, 2023 Cybertruck
Occupation
IT Specialist
Country flag
Currently no one is supposed to drive their Mach-E hard, or to fast-charge, due to the faulty HV battery contactors.

But it's rated as "higher quality" than Tesla because of...panel gaps?

If you're buying fine art for your museum, then by all means, fret over minor blemishes. Me? I'm gonna drive my damn truck. It's gonna get dirty.
 


GnarlyDudeLive

Well-known member
First Name
Darin
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
300
Reaction score
676
Location
Chicago
Vehicles
2004 F350 Dually (Tri-CT reservation)
Occupation
Database Administrator
Country flag
I am absolutely certain that the first deliveries will be based on the customers' distance from the factory.

Sincerely,
CyberGus
Austin, TX
I unfortunately agree. I believe it would be more advantageous however for the first 100k to be delivered as broadly geographically as possible for visibility and brand recognition, i.e. free advertising.
 

BMBoyer

New member
First Name
Bruce
Joined
Apr 23, 2022
Threads
0
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
Location
Florida
Vehicles
Model X on order, CyberTruck on order, Ford Raptor
Occupation
Self Employed
Elon indicated that the mirrors will be easily removable. I'm good either way, since every vehicle I've owned up to now had mirrors, and they did not offend me.
I know he said they would be easy to remove but that mess the fixture is included in the truck. The original design without them is better and utilizes cameras, something US regulations should allow. No mirrors mean better aerodynamics and less maintenance. We finally got European anti dazzle matrix lights approved. Camera vs. wing mirrors should be next.
 

empiredown

Well-known member
First Name
Stacy
Joined
May 25, 2020
Threads
3
Messages
130
Reaction score
283
Location
78642
Vehicles
19 Carrera T, 20 MY LR AWD, 21 F-150
Occupation
Retired and Loving It...
Country flag
I unfortunately agree. I believe it would be more advantageous however for the first 100k to be delivered as broadly geographically as possible for visibility and brand recognition, i.e. free advertising.
Truly... and they will DEFINITELY spread them around a bit (if they do as they have done in the past with launches; the Y for example). But it all comes down to logistics and what makes the most sense/is easiest/makes Tesla the most dough. They need to start recouping the "billions they are burning" from these factories ASAP. At least if they care about being a solvent business...

I really enjoyed the video. Elon looks tired. His on the spectrum cues were even more telling than "normal" (long pauses, 1,000 yard stares, not following the string of conversation -although I don't blame him as that was bit of a fanboi free for all at times- . I hope he can chill soon and enjoy what he has done for humanity. Almost 90 minutes of his time. Pretty cool.

Here is one of my Alien Hunters... I spend a lot of time thinking about the topics he discussed... 5,000 years isn't even a blink in the grand scheme... We have come so far, so fast... Hope we keep going and get out there.

95668C6C-1498-4486-AD46-7B6E00D51379.JPG


Edit for another vid: Timely vid vis-a-vis the Elon interview vid. Love this channel. Next time you feel like a smarty pants I encourage you to watch some of them if Space is your thing and you have not...


SS
 
Last edited:

CyberGus

Well-known member
First Name
Gus
Joined
May 22, 2021
Threads
17
Messages
1,315
Reaction score
4,040
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
1981 DeLorean, 2023 Cybertruck
Occupation
IT Specialist
Country flag
I unfortunately agree. I believe it would be more advantageous however for the first 100k to be delivered as broadly geographically as possible for visibility and brand recognition, i.e. free advertising.
Don't worry, I will drive mine every day. Even if I don't need to lol
 

 
CYBERBACKPACK
Top