Cybertruck VIN decoder! -- GVWR Vehicle Weight Revealed + **only** Dual and Tri Motor for 2024

[JBee]

...Why would Tesla increase complexity and sell a truck with their big battery without the best price they can get for that battery?

The Performance model needs the biggest battery they're making to perform.

Unless they only have the one battery size, and then it doesn't matter at all.

But this is why they matched the bigger battery to the Tri Motor originally.

-Crissa

This is true for when the overall pack size was smaller, and a larger pack was required to match the peak power required by the motors.

With the larger pack size the peak power output is no longer a constraint, along with the lower cell resistance of the 4680. So a single size pack, and different numbers of motors is now much more likely than previously for the performance model. Existing Tesla models already share the same pack between performance and non-performance variants.

For comparison:
MYP has 75kWh and 450hp which is about 6C
M3P has 75kWh and 450hp which is about 6C
CT with 120kWh and 720hp is also 6C (C= battery discharge rate)

So even if the CT had the same battery, the CT would then still have a power to weight that is better than the MYP of 3.8 vs 4.4 for the MYP, and even better than a M3P with 4.1. (Assuming CT is 2700kg/6000lbs curb)

Now 720HP is within range of just two slightly improved Plaid motor (340hp), meaning we might see that 3 second level of performance with the dual motor CT already, making the trimotor overkill (yes in this case it is!), and would leave most performance seekers happy, if it also comes at a significantly lower cost.

At some point in the optimization of all these things, the closer you get to peak efficiency, the harder it gets to improve performance. Especially up the 3 second acceleration mark, where tyre selection alone will affect acceleration more than having more motors.

We might even see sub 3seconds with a higher gearing, seeing that it a) needs more towing torque, as also for the heavier vehicle, but also b) won't have such a high top speed, and c) won't run out of HP before reaching 60mph if operating on the limit of traction.

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[Crissa]

As a battery is depleted, it acts more and more like a smaller battery. Which is why launches are slower later.

A Performance model will always perform better with a bigger battery, given no large weight difference.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

As a battery is depleted, it acts more and more like a smaller battery. Which is why launches are slower later.

A Performance model will always perform better with a bigger battery, given no large weight difference.

-Crissa

But the performance is directly related to power to weight, and the C discharge of the pack for that level of power. The SoC is irrelevant when both have the same SoC to compare.

As demonstrated above these are the same for CT/MYP/M3P. So one can expect the same performance for the Dual Motor already. Even without including any discharge performance a lower resistance 4680 cell brings.

Another simpler way to look at it is that the vehicle mass is not increasing at the same rate as the pack size.

P.S. CT TM would be a "ludicrous" power weight of 2.8 with 1080hp. Plaid is 2.0 and has a C rate of 10.8 in comparison, so much higher than the M3P.

 

[Crissa]

Okay, you're misunderstanding how C discharge rates are calculated or why they matter.

It's the relative instantaneous voltage sag that matters for performance, not the more general discharge rate.

-Crissa

 

[SentinelOne]

"CT TM would be a "ludicrous" power weight of 2.8 with 1080hp."

That would be just perfect for me!

 

[CYBRSMTH]

Ha, now I know why you selected HaulingAss as your handle!



You are right, price is king, its the most important metric for the market by far. Range is what people get anxious about, so I believe it is the key metric after price. Several individuals on the forum are calling a 350 mile range "low range", but the reality is that a 350 mile range (conjecture for the first released CyberTruck) is inline with the the Long Range version of their other product offerings.

The Model 3 LR is rated at 333 miles. Model Y LR is at 330 miles. Model X LR is at 348 miles. Model S LR is at 405 miles.

If the CyberTruck releases at 350 miles (pure conjecture), it would only be outclassed in Tesla's lineup by their flagship performance product, the Model S, and inline with their flagship larger vehicle the Model X.

This range is still competitive with most available options readily available on the market at launch. They can always add more batteries later on to get a higher range version as the market evolves (up to a max allowed by the frame and battery chemistry at least).

Its not what those who prioritize Range over Cost want to hear, but personally for me price is still the most important metric and if a 350 mile range helps keep the price of the Cybertruck below competing offerings then I will personally be ok with it. My experience driving an EV over the last six years has cured me of range anxiety.

I think Tesla will offer both. The Dual-Motor will have a range of 350 miles and qualify for the $7,500 rebate and the Tri-Motor will have a range closer to 500 miles and not qualify for the rebate.

 

[Mini2nut]

It's been said they reached diminishing returns on the quad, so we probably won't see one.

I concur. Also, Tesla does not offer a Quad motor drivetrain in their entire vehicle portfolio. Even the HD Semi uses 3 motors, not 4.

 

[Crissa]

I concur. Also, Tesla does not offer a Quad motor drivetrain in their entire vehicle portfolio. Even the HD Semi uses 3 motors, not 4.

The Semi prototype used 4. The reasons for 4 are different than the reasons for 3.

But apparently even Tesla can't eek out that last little bit of performance from 4.

-Crissa

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I think just rip off the bandaid and throw out the "concept specs". Tell customers what will be available based on today's product and not the future.

Once they gather some cybertruck fleet data and continue working on cell energy density, they will determine the next variant to be produced. If the macro environment sails full blast into a shit storm, we could see a 250 mile cybertruck before a 500 mile. If you want a 500 mile EV truck, you have no options currently. Best you can get is a Max pack R1T for $89k at 410 miles. Its not like they will lose business within the next 24 months due to not having a 500 mile truck. Once OEMs start production of their EV trucks, Tesla can announce their response and plan to deliver within "2 weeks".

That may be true (about what will be initially offered or about sales) but if we ever believed that Tesla wanted to disrupt the pickup market the 500-mile truck assured that they would be out front, and a 250-300 mile truck is unimpressive by any account. It is possible that the bean counters won the argument in Tesla. We will have to wait and see what they say at the end of November.

 

[PilotPete]

The Semi prototype used 4. The reasons for 4 are different than the reasons for 3.

But apparently even Tesla can't eek out that last little bit of performance from 4.

-Crissa

Why install 4 motors, and all the added development for SW and what not, when you can put 3 in there, with all the software to manage traction for 3, and have over 1,000hp effective?

I’m not saying we will see the CF wrapped plaid motors, but if we don’t it is because they decided they didn’t need to.

 

[scottf200]

The Semi prototype used 4. The reasons for 4 are different than the reasons for 3.

But apparently even Tesla can't eek out that last little bit of performance from 4.

-Crissa

Why install 4 motors, and all the added development for SW and what not, when you can put 3 in there, with all the software to manage traction for 3, and have over 1,000hp effective?

I’m not saying we will see the CF wrapped plaid motors, but if we don’t it is because they decided they didn’t need to.

I would guess that 3 motors provided the combo of
a) the efficiency (~500 miles) they "required" while
b) providing adequate power ie. maintaining (gain) speed on the largest ascending hill grade they "required" on fully loaded (80K). As well as enough regen (braking) on equivalent descents.

 

[Crissa]

I would guess that 3 motors provided the combo of
a) the efficiency (~500 miles) they "required" while
b) providing adequate power ie. maintaining (gain) speed on the largest ascending hill grade they "required" on fully loaded (80K). As well as enough regen (braking) on equivalent descents.

The three they're using are individually bigger than any of the four they used before.

Regen is usually capped by the battery, anyhow.

-Crissa

 

[scottf200]

The three they're using are individually bigger than any of the four they used before.

I did not recall that. Were they using four Model 3 motors and then switched to three Plaid motors?
AFAIK they don't have many motor options ... they simply change the gearing before it goes to the wheel.

Regen is usually capped by the battery, anyhow. -Crissa

A generator (motor) can only produce so many kW converted to 'braking'. It is not like they could have a single motor with a large battery slow down an 80K lb loaded semi-truck on a 6/7/8% grade hill.

 

[RandyS]

I check this online tool periodically to see what estimated dates they're coming up with. I just noticed, however, that all of the first deliveries are going to people that say they've reserved a "quad motor" truck. Even reservations that are 2 years or more after the unveil. Since there is no such thing at this time, that pretty much makes the tool useless for any sort of delivery estimate timetable...

 

[cvalue13]

Why install 4 motors, and all the added development for SW and what not, when you can put 3 in there, with all the software to manage traction for 3, and have over 1,000hp effective?

I’m not saying we will see the CF wrapped plaid motors, but if we don’t it is because they decided they didn’t need to.

also, who says they have sufficient numbers of driveline components to scale as needed

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